ChiefsPlanet - Football HEY SORTER!! (and SULLY)

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HEY SORTER!! (and SULLY) (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=288097)

Sorter

11-10-2014 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 11101160)

Sorter, you're more of a back 7 guy than I (or, that's my impression).

What do you think "All Zones are "no run" coverages unless tagged" means? No running with the motion?

Thats how I took it.

Dinny Bossa Nova

11-10-2014 01:45 PM

"If you'll notice, it states that it's a either Cover 3 (Trey) and Cover 6 (Pack) depending on the offensive alignment. The front can also change by alignment."

This image is kind of dark, so it's hard to see very well. The acronyms and abbreviations in the coaching points are over my head. To be perfectly honest, just about everything in the coaching points is over my head.

1. What is "REDUCE=AUTOMATIC FRONT"?

2. What is YOFF?

3. What is "REDUCE vs. 2 back set (unless YOFF)"?

4. What is "UNDER vs. U/H removed OPEN side (or YOFF)"?

5. What is "OVER ED vs. U/H removed CLOSED side"?

6. What is "RUSH vs. EMPTY"?

7 What is "OPEN $ can check "SKY" vs. 2 BACK SET"?

8. What is "PACK checks "BOX" vs. BUNCH"?

9. What is "STUNTS: TILT"?

10. What is "can also play as REDUCE 23 SKY"?

Dinny

Dinny Bossa Nova

11-10-2014 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 11101149)

The symbols are just personal preference. X and Y are the two eligible receivers on the LoS, and Z is always the first slot. (Y is typically the TE, if there is one). As for the OL, you just kinda know who they are based on where they are. Many times the center's symbol is square instead of circle, as well, while the rest are round. Same thing for the Q. You just kinda know who the Q is based on alignment, although I've seen some coaches actually put the little squiggle to make his oval and actual "Q."
The shading in the circles shows where the DL alignment is.

Understand that the playbook pictures are install pieces. So while it may say "primarily on 1st and 2nd down," that's just for the purpose of the players learning their own call tendencies. Once the first game comes, game planning throws all that out the window, as does personnel groupings and tendencies. 11 personnel (1 RB, 1 TE) might mean one thing for one opponent, and something completely different for another. But during install, you are just, typically, installing vs pro personnel (2 RB, 1 TE), and a few common formations, since you aren't planning for any opponent.

This explains the OL symbols perfectly. I figured you could tell from their place on the page you can spot the guard, etc. The shading in the oval was what was throwing me. I can see now it directs the alignment.

I assumed, as well, that these are just base alignments, and there are a mind boggling number of variations depending on the team or even different personnel groupings within a team.

Groovy stuff. Thanks, Sully.

Dinny

Sully

11-10-2014 02:16 PM

The computer I'm on isn't showing those images, so I can't see specifically.

YOFF would mean the TE is off the LoS.

This defense is, essentially, what I would call a 20 defense (in my terminology, this is the fisrt number is the technique to the strong side, the last number to the weak side, so 20 would mean a 2 and a 0 shade).

The U/H refers to the fullback/H-Back (or any player who is "in" for that guy).
Here's where it might get a little involved
"Under vs U/H removed to open side (or YOFF)"
-This means if the fullback/H-back moves to a slot position away from the TE, the defense goes from a 20, to a 03, which is called "under" (essentially the defense Pendergast ran when he was our DC). If you look at the "Twin" slide, that shows the change in DL alignment.

Ed is the DE to the strong side. Rush is Hali, and S is the OLB opposite the Ed. What the defense does is, if they go to an under front, make sure to put the Ed over the TE (in a 6 tech) so that he isn't hooked (blocked down), and so the SLB can have inside leverage on the #2 receiver.

Sully

11-10-2014 02:19 PM

I can't tell what "Rush" vs empty means, other than maybe telling the Rush backer he's on an automatic go in an empty set.

Sully

11-10-2014 02:23 PM

"Pack checks 'box' to Bunch"

Bunch is when three receivers all line up right near each other.
You know when this happens, one guy is going to run some sort of in route, one guy is going to run some sort of out route, and one guy will run something in the middle. So it's just a zone check that, tells the CB he keeps everything in front of him, and looks for the deep runner, the S backer gets to the flat, and looks for the first route coming outside, and the Safety to that side gets the deepest in cutter. The Mike is probably walling (looking for any crosser).

Sully

11-10-2014 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 11101261)

I can't tell what "Rush" vs empty means, other than maybe telling the Rush backer he's on an automatic go in an empty set.

I'm still struggling with this, because the Rush backer is going vs every front, so I don't know what the check rush or check Ed means.

Oh, I think it widens his alignment, the more I look at it.

Sorter

11-10-2014 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 11101286)

I'm still struggling with this, because the Rush backer is going vs every front, so I don't know what the check rush or check Ed means.

Oh, I think it widens his alignment, the more I look at it.

Check rush means when they get empty, they align with 2 3-techs, 9 closed, 7 open (assume Y on). Sam is walked out on #2 closed and $ is walked out on #2 open. Coverage changed to Trey.

I'll post the screencaps from the playbook later tonight. For all the hate the Ryan brothers get, they make a very friendly install.

Sully

11-10-2014 03:24 PM

I wasn't even looking at the interior guys
Thanks

Dinny Bossa Nova

11-10-2014 03:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Back to this one. Concerning the defense.

C = Cornerback?
$ = Safety? If so, is there a way to tell strong or free? Or does not apply?
N = Nose Tackle?
S = ?
E = ?
T = ?
M = ?
W = ?
R = ?

Could you imagine having to "dummy down" a playbook for me? Probably would have to come up with a more accurate term than dummy.

Dinny

Sorter

11-10-2014 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinny Blues (Post 11101462)

Back to this one. Concerning the defense.

C = Cornerback
$ = Safety. No free or strong.
N = Nose Tackle
S = Sam
E = End
T = Tackle
M = Mike
W = Will
R = Rush
N= Nickel player
D=Dime player
Could you imagine having to "dummy down" a playbook for me? Probably would have to come up with a more accurate term than dummy.

Dinny

There you go.

Easy 6

11-10-2014 04:58 PM

Pretty damn cool thread, I knew Sorter was a guru but didnt know Sully understood the game to this level... I'm learning a lot from this, great idea Dinny.

I know what a "good football player" looks like, but this is upper deck player/coach level information that I've never understood at all really, many thanks to all involved.

This thing should be stickied.

Discuss Thrower

11-10-2014 05:07 PM

I just want to know about the 3-3-6 defense.

Sorter

11-10-2014 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully (Post 11101286)

I'm still struggling with this, because the Rush backer is going vs every front, so I don't know what the check rush or check Ed means.

Oh, I think it widens his alignment, the more I look at it.

Okay, here's the full Reduce install with all of the checks vs. motion/alignments

http://i.imgur.com/kB5qq9l.png http://i.imgur.com/muqFFFj.png

The check Ed is a check to their over ed front. The trips box in the bottom left should clarify things a bit.

http://i.imgur.com/MTqghQ1.png

Mother****erJones

11-10-2014 06:22 PM

Fantastic thread. I need to study this as well. I need to learn basics also. Like 3-5 and shit lol

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