You're putting words into my mouth. I didn't say he was a slouch.

You are comparing him to a guy who averaged 33 points per game in the playoffs, and a guy who hit 50% of his game winning shots. You are comparing him to a guy who three-peated TWICE. You are comparing him to the greatest player to play any professional sport, ever.

So no, pulling a few games here and there isn't good enough when you're making this comparison. LeBron has played in the past 2 seasons, unbelievably lackluster playoff competition and up until the Pacers series, it's largely been dominating performances followed by strong enough late game performances with some unbelievable flashes sprinkled in. You can feel free to look at late game logs of close games and see how many turnovers, missed shots, passes, and missed free throws he committed. Again, these are not saying he's a slouch, but let me repeat for the billionth time. You are comparing him to Michael Jordan.

Not trying to say that you're calling him a bum, just saying that as "greatest of all time" potential, lebron is pretty heady competition for Jordan as opposed to say a Kobe.

Lebron's playoff averages are about 28, 9, and 7. Jordan's were about 33, 6, and 6. comparable.

As far as lackluster competition, Lebron has gone up against the top defensive team in the league almost every year in the playoffs.

Game logs? I'm watching the games. You saw the 48 special in detroit, I'm assuming? Even Jordan never had a game like that.

It's too early in his career to say, but the possibility that Lebron might be better than Jordan when all is said and done is very, very real.

I'm not comparing him to Kobe. Other people are bringing him up when I've already acknowledged LeBron is past him.

And no, I doubt LeBron passes MJ. And based on what we've seen, it is not very, very real unless he plays every playoff series the way he has against the Pacers. And no, his road to the playoffs the past 2 years is outrageously bad, especially when you consider how cold and unprepared OKC was.

LeBron has nothing to put him up against Jordan yet. You are talking about a guy who was regularly putting up 30's, 40's, and often times 50's, and won 6 championships (against much tougher competition). He has a VERY long way to go to beat Jordan.

Not sure what you're talking about. These games aren't sustainable. You can't do that in every playoff game. He breaks these games out when they're needed. Against indy last year, he had a 40, 19, 9 game after bosh went out; the 45 point outburst came when the whole world was getting ready to kill him and the heat for getting eliminated. Dude stepped up, and stepped up BIG.

OKC had durant/westbrook/harden - that's 3 superstar talents + the defensive player of the year and they got spanked.

By what metric are you suggesting "tougher" competition? Last I checked, the thibodeau style defenses common in the nba now that specialize in making it hard for individual scorers to go off weren't exactly common in Jordan's era.

And yet Jordan did. You keep talking about a few big games sprinkled in with a lot of consistently very good games. Jordan was dominant the vast majority of playoff games he played.

I don't think there is a single person that would doubt that Westbrook and Harden and everyone not named Kevin Durant was ice cold for pretty much the entire series. They were unready for the big stage. And that's only one series out of 8. I think most would agree that if the Spurs play their game, it is by a mile the best team they'll see all postseason.

By the metric that the Eastern Conference the past 2 years has been absolute dogshit and everybody knows it. And you've got to be kidding me, comparing LeBron's defenders against Jordan's. Jordan played in an era of massive handchecking and squared off regularly against elite defenders like Bryon Russell and Joe Dumars and Gerald Wilkins.

How exactly do you define all time great performances?

And had Lebron not played lights out this entire series, Indiana would have swept the Heat.

Off-topic, but I hope my Magic draft McLemore. I'm thinking Cleveland will draft Noels, and supposedly Orlando wants to pick between McLemore and Trey Burke. I'm thinking they will go with Mac, since A) Jacque Vaughn is the head coach and B) they locked up Jameer Nelson to a contract.

I hope they pick up Thomas Robinson if Houston lets him go to clear up space for a run at Dwight. That would mean they'd have a starting lineup of Jameer Nelson/Tobias Harris/Ben McLemore/Thomas Robinson/Nikola Vucevic. That's also assuming Big Baby is gone.

/end pointless speculation and hopes about my team nobody here gives a shit about

Talking about the big games, because I don't want to sit here and list every game he had. you said jordan averaged 33 per game. lebron averages 28 and about 1 assist more. By your logic, jordan's consistently dominant play was worth about 3 more points per game? I'm pretty sure Lebron has led his teams in points, assists, and rebounds. He averages nearly a 30 point triple double. What exactly is your definition of dominant at this point?

Did you watch the finals? If not for one boneheaded play at the end, Westbrook's 43 almost won them game 4. This is the same OKC that beat a very very similar spurs team that you just mentioned. Regardless. I'm failing to see how you're discounting Lebron's competition. Like I said, he's gone up against the best defense in the league nearly every year in the playoffs. That detroit team he dropped 48 on wasn't just a good defense, it was one of the most elite defenses in the history of the nba. As for the last two years, best defenses in the nba belonged to... chicago, indiana, boston, and philly, also known as Lebron's playoff opponents.

Yes, they had handchecking in Jordan's era, but they also had nothing like the strong side shading defenses which means the whole team can focus on keeping a guy out of the paint. And yes, handchecking meant some of the stronger guys could basically guide the offensive player where they wanted them to go, but still, with how easy it was to iso, and with the rudimentary double teaming techniques, basically, if you could get by your man, the defense was toast. Those scarce "elite" defenders were nowhere near as effective as the elite team defenses currently in the NBA.

Also, of those three you mentioned, only dumars was an elite defender, russell was just an athletic guy comparable to a richard jefferson, and wilkins was just an unfortunate nickname. Remember who was guarding Jordan during "the shot?" Freak athlete, defensive stalwart, Craig ****ing Ehlo. With a few exceptions, the league was nowhere near as athletic then as it is now.

And I'm not saying this to denigrate what Jordan did, I'm just saying Lebron's clearly in the conversation in a way that nobody else in our generation has been before.

Comparing Lebron to MJ or any other great is so pointless right now. In the end, they'll all be compared by championships. Lebron's book is still open on that. I seriously doubt he'll end up with 6 or more, but who knows.

McLemore reminds me a bit of rudy gay's situation. Lots of tools to work with but disturbing lack of production. Maybe not in a few years, but that lineup looks incredibly underwhelming right now. Tanking for Wiggins?

I think championships comparison holds more weight in the NBA than it does in the NFL but it's still ridiculous.

The Cavs should pick Nerlens and sit him for his rookie year. With the strength of the 2014 draft, that would allow him to get completely healthy and give them a better shot at a high pick when there are going to be a ton of studs available.

The problem with Noels is he's way too much like Tristan Thompson, who's turning into a very good player. And he's just not good enough to be a "can't miss" prospect.

Their best option is to either trade for a Small Forward or trade down to #3 to get Otto Porter. If they don't find a Small Forward with a 1.1 or 1.3, they won't find one anywhere. Meanwhile at Center, you have a shitload of options at 1.19 (especially if they trade up) and potentially free agent or trade options.

I hate the idea that they're exploring a Demarcus Cousins trade with the 1.1, but a Kevin Love (move Tristan Thompson permanently to Center) or an Al Jefferson trade could make sense, even if both are pipe dreams.

LeBron's series against Indiana has looked Jordan-esque. The last 2 playoffs from LeBron looked like a superstar player playing with a great supporting cast. It was a Paul Pierce or Kobe like dominance, which is not on the same level as MJ dominance. MJ's final PPG was 33. At the peak of his career it was somewhere around 35, which is outrageous for any player. He has a 50% success rate with buzzer beaters. He has a shitload of 40+ and 50+ games on his resume. And he did all this while averaging about 7 Assists, 6-7 Rebounds, and 2 Steals per game. Jordan pretty much played every series in the dominant way LeBron is playing Indiana. If he plays every series like Chicago, that's still excellent, but it's not what compares you to the greatest athlete of all time.

Yes, I did. Miami played excellent, LeBron played excellent, and his role players were unstoppable. Wade and Bosh were superb, and Mike Miller/Battier somehow got red hot. But OKC played absolutely terrible, and it wasn't all because of a suffocating defense. Harden was shooting about 25% on mostly open shots. Apart from 2 games, Westbrook was pretty terrible. The Spurs, to me, are a much better benchmark of the kind of team you want to see the Heat play.

Now you're starting to get ridiculous. 1) Ehlo was a solid defender and "the shot' was a tremendous offensive play. It had little to do with poor defense; 2) hand-checking rules made it very difficult to play Guard in the same way it made it harder to play receiver with tighter pass interference rules; 3) you are completely misinformed if you're going to make the laughable claim that defenses are better today than they were back then. Back then, you had great team defenses because most coaches valued players who could play at least a little defense. The 80's was an elite era for defensive guards. In the 90's, you had absolutely elite defenders guarding Jordan in almost every playoff series. YOu had either John Starks or Gerald Wilkins. Dan Majerle. Clyde Drexler. Gary Payton / Nate McMillan. Joe Dumars. I'm sorry, but most of these guys run circles around Paul George or Jimmy Butler, especially with handchecking rules in place; 4) Bryon Russell was an excellent defender and he got beat, as most players did, on a very well defended play where Jordan made a shot that was just unguardable; 5) Jordan played in one of the most balanced eras in the NBA and a stacked Eastern Conference. Every year, he played the Pat Riley Knicks, the Lenny Wilkens Cavs, the Bad Boy Pistons, and in the finals he squared off against a stacked Jazz team, a stacked Suns team, and the Magic-led Lakers.

LeBron is the best of our generation. I've already said that. But he's got a long, long way to be MJ and again, he has to play every series like he has Indiana. It's even more crazy to think about what Jordan could have accomplished if he went straight to the NBA and didn't try out baseball. He could have won 8 in a row.

Birdman suspended for tonight's game.
Posted via Mobile Device

First sign the NBA wants a game 7?

Birdman's been one of the few Heat other than LeBron worth a damn in this series. The others include Haslem and occasionally Chalmers.

Noel is the BPA, I think. Can't see McLemore being a significant impact player in the NBA, but Noel has a shot at that.

No, it was the right thing to do. Has nothing with the NBA wanting a game 7.

It's certainly the "right" thing for the NBA if there is a game 7.

Sure. :rolleyes:

Didn't Wade give Stephenson an obvious shot to the head earlier this series? No suspension there, but Birdman gets one for a shove? A bit odd.

The right thing would have been to eject him on the spot, let alone the moronic call to call a double technical. It is the same exact call as what was made for Nazr Muhammad except that this came unprovoked and that the Birdman both cheap shotted Hansbrough to the floor, THEN bumped chests with Hansbrough, then shoved him. It was 3 incidences.

I don't know how much more clearcut you can get on an ejection.

It was a cheap shot AND a shove. I have no problem with the occasional cheap shot but this one was excessive.

No no no... Chiefzilla says NBA teams draft for need and do things like trade down from 1.1

I think Noel has bust written all over him myself.

If they truly think they can get LeBron back...they should take McLemore.

the NBA is shifting to a 3 point league...hell, it's probably already there

Cavs are obviously playing for LeBron. Get him a shooter. The Heat are going to win another title and their best big is a soft ****ing pussy.

I just don't see Noel being a good NBA player. I see McLemore being a 15 PPG guy who can knock down open shots. All LeBron needs is a band full of guys who hit their open shots. He and Irving would get McLemore plenty of wide open looks.

Yep call a foul on a player trying to avoid a screen. Great officiating.

anyone surprised it's Lebron vs. again?

Christ if they win the Championship this year it'll be every bit as impressive as the year (the last year) Jordan beat Utah all by himself.

LeBron is shooting too much.

if I have to see one more Dwayne Wade 18 foot fadeaway brick I'm going to throw up

he has to be hurting much more than he is letting on

I'm hoping for an MJ-esque LeBron moment tonight late in the 4th.

I want to see a down 1 buzzer beater.

Seriously, this shit from the Heat isn't going to fly in the finals.

the Spurs only shot is if Timmy D has AN ALL TIME great series. Like 30/15 great.

Seriously. I watched with my own two eyes LeBron shut down MVP Derrick Rose who was literally raping the playoffs before that. He literally made Derrick Rose a non-factor.

If need be, I have no doubt he could do the same to Tony Parker.

LeFlop.

pretty sure Chalmers needs to stop shooting

what is $10K to LeBron

like the take a penny, leave a penny system at a gas station?

Jesus. Is Chris Bosh the worst player on the floor? Can't play any ****ing defense...1-8, and of course, the 1 is a 3.

this is, at least, setting up for a LeBron 4th quarter to remember.

That's the only thing about LeBron flopping right there. If he starts doing it all the time, everyone's going to start doing it.

Is Bosh hurt too like Wade? He can't possibly be this useless. This is a top 20 player in the NBA we're talking about.

LeBron is a bitch tonight.

I know the CP thought process

it happens during NFL games all of the time

but I'm not convinced this game is over. LeBron has a run in him. Although I think he's starting to get a bit demoralized.

Can't wait for the epic 4th quarter to remember we're about to witness from LeBron.

Doesn't rebound either. Barely even gives an effort in that area.

He was excellent in the postseason last year, especially the Finals, so I don't get it.

6-16 from the floor? LMAO

Dude is choking hard.

What were the fans just chanting?

lefraud just passed up an open 3

he's a puss

Jordan used to do that all of the time in the playoffs...

and then the 4th quarter happened

queen james wants no part of this game

he's about to quit

gonna be an epic meltdown in the 4th with lebron looking sheepish

Lol pretty much.

this is why GoChiefs probably will be lucky to crack my top 5

he trolls sports threads

it's annoying

Exactly what Shane Battier said. These players don't care about these fines. As long as the fines are so low, players will keep flopping.

how the **** was that not offensive goaltending?

It's not just sports threads, it's everything.

Game in Indiana. Calls have been one-sided all night, not that it would have made much of a difference with how useless every non-LeBron Heat player has been.

I've hated LeBron since the Dallas finals.

He was a bitch then and he's being a bitch recently.

Last year he was solid but he's a pussy for some reason lately.

I mean

anyone watching this game and blaming the current blowout on LeBron is a ****ing idiot

Wade can't even make a ****ing free throw.

he's been a pussy lately?

Jesus dude.

Jesus.

The Heat need to figure out how the **** to guard Hibbert. Shit, at this point...****ing put LeBron on him and see what happens.

lebron has nothing

NOTHING.

This game is over and he better bring it in game 7 or face an offseason of LOLs

Wade can barely even move or jump. Total shell of what he was.

I tell you what...

I hate the ****ing Spurs, I respect them...but I hate watching them play.

If I have to see a Spurs/Pacers series? Uhm, no. Won't tune in. Boring.

In fact, the only reason I watch the NBA anymore is LeBron and to see if LeBron can remind me of MJ back in the days when I actually liked the NBA.

that was a terrible, terrible, terrible play by West lol

face an offseason of LOls?

why?

because it's LeBron vs. ?

I still think this is a 50/50 game. Someone gives me 5:1 on the Heat I'd bet it.

There is no way the NBA allows Miami to get beat in Game 7. They might not even televise San Antonio vs. Indiana.

that was in the back of my head when I posted that

LeBron = $$

I get that.

I love watching the Spurs, but they'll kick the shit out of this Pacers team. It will be a boring finals because of how one-sided it will be.

At least LeBron gives the Heat some kind of a chance in that one if they get there.

You serious? He's not as aggressive tonight as he was Thursday. The Heat go as he goes. This Heat team is a step or two above LeBron's old Cavs teams. He has to play great all the time for them to win.

Man

You're right

LeBron can't have an all-time great postseason performance every single game

Gee.

I'm still predicting a LeBron quarter to remember.

But if Indiana keeps making every shot they take...obviously it won't matter.

All time great the last game? Get the **** out of here LMAO. You 13?

If LeBron doesn't win a title this year, I doubt he ever wins another.

Heat are going downhill fast.

Game 7 is his waterloo.

Laughable to pin this team's losses on the only player doing anything on the court for them.

Wouldn't be too difficult for him to leave the shell of Wade and soft Bosh next summer and win a few more, I imagine.

Wade is 3-10
Bosh 1-8
LeBron 7-18

Heat overall 20-60


Just terrible.

Heat look tired after that amazing 2nd half. But it seems the Pacers are ****ing around with turnovers and bad offense.

No, he got lucky last year.

I said it before, there is no way LeBron wins more than 3 rings in his career. One, because I personally believe he will decline more rapidly than most people think, and two, the Heat are going to be rebuilding in a year or two.

Trollolol LMAO