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frankotank 06-16-2015 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11550179)
The characters in the books actually have a reasonable motivation for killing Jon.

yes I've seen this comment in the the spoiler thread.
so basically from what I've read in these threads.....
they ****ed this all up. the books made it much more palatable in that they gave the reader good reason/reasons why this came to pass.

but the TV show ****ed it up.

so....I really want to know WHAT they ****ed up. would you please use a spoiler if need be and tell us why jons death/assasination makes so much more sense in the book than it does in the TV version?

EDIT - welp....looks like you already covered this in the post just before this one! hahaha. anything else?

MagicHef 06-16-2015 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankotank (Post 11551387)
yes I've seen this comment in the the spoiler thread.
so basically from what I've read in these threads.....
they ****ed this all up. the books made it much more palatable in that they gave the reader good reason/reasons why this came to pass.

but the TV show ****ed it up.

so....I really want to know WHAT they ****ed up. would you please use a spoiler if need be and tell us why jons death/assasination makes so much more sense in the book than it does in the TV version?

EDIT - welp....looks like you already covered this in the post just before this one! hahaha. anything else?

Sorry, maybe it should have been a spoiler, but I figured none of that information will ever be in the show, since they decided to do it differently.

GRRM made Ned, Robb, and Jon all great leaders in some aspects, but their downfalls were all self-made through their individual weaknesses:

-Ned was blinded by his honor, refused to play the game.
-Robb was a great military tactician, but was hopeless in political scheming.
-Jon was completely focused on the long term enemy to the detriment of his immediate personal situation.

In the books, Jon's killers were pretty well justified. As far as they know, they were preventing the desertion of the wall, which was their protection from the wildlings.

In the show, they were just kind of stupid jerks who were mad at Jon. (Really, why did they let the wildlings through the wall if they were going to kill Jon for it the next day?)

KevB 06-16-2015 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11550069)
Rational decision making isn't necessarily these mother****ers strong suit.

Exactly. More decisions are made on this show out of anger, passion and irrationality than the opposite. Let's not forget that many/most of the men on the wall got there as penance for being awful people to begin with. Add to that the men have likely all lost "brothers" and other family during their battles with the Wildlings, so there's a deep hate for them. Jon getting in bed with the Wildlings (literally and figuratively) appears to them to be an act of treason. They weren't there to see the White Walker army, so they don't necessarily understand the dire threat that army poses to The Wall and Westeros.

I hate that he was killed, because I thought they'd really set up his story to be interesting over the next couple of seasons. That setup seems to all have been for naught.

allen_kcCard 06-16-2015 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 11550928)
The fire God lady resurrects Jon in the fire and we find out his mother was a Targaryen.

Mother was a Stark you mean. Daddy was Targ...speculatively.

Buehler445 06-16-2015 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allen_kcCard (Post 11551417)
Mother was a Stark you mean. Daddy was Targ...speculatively.

Stark kind of has to be the dad.

MagicHef 06-16-2015 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11551432)
Stark kind of has to be the dad.

So... this brings up an interesting question about spoilers. There are a lot of theories out there that depend on evidence in the books, but they have not been explicitly spelled out in either the books or the show. However, a show watcher would not have any idea about such a theory, because the hints weren't present in the show at all.

Given that it affects future things in the story (both show and books), should those theories be discussed here?

Buehler445 06-16-2015 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551458)
So... this brings up an interesting question about spoilers. There are a lot of theories out there that depend on evidence in the books, but they have not been explicitly spelled out in either the books or the show. However, a show watcher would not have any idea about such a theory, because the hints weren't present in the show at all.

Given that it affects future things in the story (both show and books), should those theories be discussed here?

I'm for it if you throw it in a spoiler. I'd like to read it, but I'd probably drop it in a spoiler to be sure.

MagicHef 06-16-2015 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11551467)
I'm for it if you throw it in a spoiler. I'd like to read it, but I'd probably drop it in a spoiler to be sure.

Ok:

Spoiler!

allen_kcCard 06-16-2015 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11551467)
I'm for it if you throw it in a spoiler. I'd like to read it, but I'd probably drop it in a spoiler to be sure.

Spoiler!

Buehler445 06-16-2015 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551477)
Ok:

Spoiler!

Spoiler!

allen_kcCard 06-16-2015 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11551486)
Spoiler!

Spoiler!

Buehler445 06-16-2015 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allen_kcCard (Post 11551496)
Spoiler!

Spoiler!

mr. tegu 06-16-2015 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551477)
Ok:

Spoiler!

I have never read the books at all but that is actually something I had been thinking as a possibility.

MagicHef 06-16-2015 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 11551522)
I have never read the books at all but that is actually something I had been thinking as a possibility.

That's cool, so there must have been some sort of evidence in the show. Do you remember what it was?

Amnorix 06-16-2015 12:53 PM

Spoiler!

MagicHef 06-16-2015 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551555)
Spoiler!

A lot of people think that third one you mention is a fake.

Amnorix 06-16-2015 12:58 PM

Spoiler!

ToxSocks 06-16-2015 01:00 PM

So uh, what happened with Margaery and her brother?

Amnorix 06-16-2015 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551560)
A lot of people think that third one you mention is a fake.

Que?

Spoiler!

Amnorix 06-16-2015 01:05 PM

Spoiler!

MagicHef 06-16-2015 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551563)
Spoiler!

Spoiler!

MagicHef 06-16-2015 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551572)
Que?

Spoiler!

Amnorix 06-16-2015 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551580)
Spoiler!


Spoiler!

NewChief 06-16-2015 01:10 PM

Instead of dealing with all the crazy spoilerage and pages and pages of discussions in spoiler, why don't people who want to talk about book theories and such come and ask them in the book reader's thread?

Amnorix 06-16-2015 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewChief (Post 11551584)
Instead of dealing with all the crazy spoilerage and pages and pages of discussions in spoiler, why don't people who want to talk about book theories and such come and ask them in the book reader's thread?

Spoiler!

MMXcalibur 06-16-2015 01:27 PM


BigRichard 06-16-2015 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCtotheSB (Post 11551596)

.


mr. tegu 06-16-2015 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551553)
That's cool, so there must have been some sort of evidence in the show. Do you remember what it was?

Spoiler!

Bowser 06-16-2015 07:20 PM

There was that scene in the show where Baelish and Sansa were in the Winterfell crypts, and she made mention of how her Aunt Lyanna had been kidnapped and raped by Rhaegar Targaryan. While Sansa is remembering the story she is being told and staring intently at Lyanna's statue, Littlefinger looks at Sansa at gives her a sly smile and a smirk.

mdchiefsfan 06-16-2015 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser (Post 11552218)
There was that scene in the show where Baelish and Sansa were in the Winterfell crypts, and she made mention of how her Aunt Lyanna had been kidnapped and raped by Rhaegar Targaryan. While Sansa is remembering the story she is being told and staring intently at Lyanna's statue, Littlefinger looks at Sansa at gives her a sly smile and a smirk.

Yea. That was a huge nod to the book readers.

KC_Connection 06-16-2015 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11551458)
So... this brings up an interesting question about spoilers. There are a lot of theories out there that depend on evidence in the books, but they have not been explicitly spelled out in either the books or the show. However, a show watcher would not have any idea about such a theory, because the hints weren't present in the show at all.

I picked up on the Rhaegar/Lyanna thing just by merely watching the show. The hints have been there over the seasons (and were especially obvious this season).

In any case...god, I hope Melisandre can resurrect Jon like Thoros did for Beric Dondarrion all those times.

Hawk 06-17-2015 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11551583)
Spoiler!

Spoiler!

GloucesterChief 06-17-2015 09:14 AM

I also don't think that Littlefinger wanted to push the Seven Kingdoms into civil war.

I believe that he negotiated for Ned to take the black but Joffery being a little psychopath with no political instincts whatsoever decided to execute him.

You could argue that Littlefinger first wanted to get at the people that wronged him ie Jon Arryn, Ned, and Robert.

Hawk 06-17-2015 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 11552422)
I picked up on the Rhaegar/Lyanna thing just by merely watching the show. The hints have been there over the seasons (and were especially obvious this season).

In any case...god, I hope Melisandre can resurrect Jon like Thoros did for Beric Dondarrion all those times.

In that one recent episode where Littlefinger and Sansa discuss Lyanna in the crypts, the show pretty much laid it all out there in hints. Their crypt discussion was the most obvious part when Littlefinger's expression makes it pretty clear he didn't think Lyanna was kidnapped and raped. But in that one episode, you also had:

- Stannis' wife says that Jon is some upjumped bastard of a tavern wench, and Stannis points out "That wasn't Ned's way". Meant to make people wonder how honorable NEd could have fathered a bastard. Totally out of character for Ned.

- Melisandre tries to seduce Jon telling him she feels power running through him and that he has the power to cast shadows. Given those statements, it made it seem like Jon has king's blood in him.

- Barristan tells Dany about what a good guy Rhaegar was and how he didn't like to fight and preferred to sing, all of which makes us think it unlikely he was a kidnapper and raper.

So yes, the show went out of its way in that episode to give hints that Jon might be Lyanna and Rhaegar's son.

Hawk 06-17-2015 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloucesterChief (Post 11553104)
I also don't think that Littlefinger wanted to push the Seven Kingdoms into civil war.

I believe that he negotiated for Ned to take the black but Joffery being a little psychopath with no political instincts whatsoever decided to execute him.

You could argue that Littlefinger first wanted to get at the people that wronged him ie Jon Arryn, Ned, and Robert.

Chaos is a ladder. Littlefinger absolutely wanted to start a war. After having Lysa kill Jon Arryn and blame the Lannisters, Littlefinger then falsely accused Tyrion of owning the knife used on Bran, so Catelyn captures Tyrion and sets off the war. Plus Littlefinger betrayed Ned resulting in him getting killed and insuring a war.

And look where it has gotten him. He brokers Tyrell-Lannister alliance (which would not have been needed if not for the war) and gets made Lord of Harrenhall as a result. That status allows him to finally marry Lysa and then he kills her so now he is Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord of Harrenhall. On the show, he tells Cersei he will take back Winterfell with the Vale troops if she makes him Warden of the North. And so on. Littlefinger thrives on chaos, and that is exactly what he wanted to create.

KCUnited 06-17-2015 09:39 AM

Not necessarily hinting at who she was, but before he left for the Watch, Ned told Jon that they'd get together someday and he'd tell him about his mother. Seemed rather foreshadowish at the time.

Amnorix 06-17-2015 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk (Post 11553097)
Spoiler!

You are completely correct. I had forgotten!

Fire Me Boy! 06-17-2015 10:22 AM

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06...1035fd07a1.jpg

mdchiefsfan 06-17-2015 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy! (Post 11553162)

LMAO

Buehler445 06-17-2015 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk (Post 11553115)
Chaos is a ladder. Littlefinger absolutely wanted to start a war. After having Lysa kill Jon Arryn and blame the Lannisters, Littlefinger then falsely accused Tyrion of owning the knife used on Bran, so Catelyn captures Tyrion and sets off the war. Plus Littlefinger betrayed Ned resulting in him getting killed and insuring a war.

And look where it has gotten him. He brokers Tyrell-Lannister alliance (which would not have been needed if not for the war) and gets made Lord of Harrenhall as a result. That status allows him to finally marry Lysa and then he kills her so now he is Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord of Harrenhall. On the show, he tells Cersei he will take back Winterfell with the Vale troops if she makes him Warden of the North. And so on. Littlefinger thrives on chaos, and that is exactly what he wanted to create.

Didn't he say in one of his monologues that when things stay the same power doesn't change or something? When shot hits the fan there are opportunities.

Amnorix 06-17-2015 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11553285)
Didn't he say in one of his monologues that when things stay the same power doesn't change or something? When shot hits the fan there are opportunities.


Yes I think so. During the boat ride with Sansa leaving King's Landing I believe.

Hawk 06-17-2015 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 11553306)
Yes I think so. During the boat ride with Sansa leaving King's Landing I believe.

Yeah, that was his speech I was quoting, he tells Sansa that "Chaos is a ladder"

mdchiefsfan 06-17-2015 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk (Post 11553336)
Yeah, that was his speech I was quoting, he tells Varys that "Chaos is a ladder"

FYP

Hawk 06-17-2015 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan (Post 11553503)
FYP

Haha, you're right, it was Varys he was talking to when he said that. Varys and Littlefinger are the perfect foils. Littlefinger wants chaos and would be fine to watch the realm burn if it gets him to where he wants to be. Varys on the other hand claims to want peace and to be working for what he thinks will be most likely to bring peace and stability to the realm.

mdchiefsfan 06-17-2015 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk (Post 11553568)
Haha, you're right, it was Varys he was talking to when he said that. Varys and Littlefinger are the perfect foils. Littlefinger wants chaos and would be fine to watch the realm burn if it gets him to where he wants to be. Varys on the other hand claims to want peace and to be working for what he thinks will be most likely to bring peace and stability to the realm.

They are two peas in a pod, yet on the opposite side of the spectrum. Some of the best episodes had those two matching wits, at least until Varys and Tyrion met.

Fire Me Boy! 06-18-2015 07:14 AM

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/130785113" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

kcfanXIII 06-18-2015 09:42 AM

There was also a clue about Jon's true lineage in a scene with the Targ Meister at the wall. Sam is reading raven messages about Dany, and the Meister starts talking about how he feels for his family, being so far away from home and other family members, then Jon walks in. I may have read too much into it, but the timing on it was a ridiculous coincidence if it wasn't meant to be there.

Sandy Vagina 06-19-2015 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcfanXIII (Post 11554651)
There was also a clue about Jon's true lineage in a scene with the Targ Meister at the wall. Sam is reading raven messages about Dany, and the Meister starts talking about how he feels for his family, being so far away from home and other family members, then Jon walks in. I may have read too much into it, but the timing on it was a ridiculous coincidence if it wasn't meant to be there.

Yep. Aemon Targaryen took way too much interest in Jon, and shared personal stories with him. It's highly doubtful that all of this build up was for nothing. Aemon, breaking the tie of votes between Jon and Alliser to be top dog.

Jon will be revived by Melisandre... or by the Gods, I will end Benioff and Weiss.

allen_kcCard 06-19-2015 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks (Post 11556751)
Yep. Aemon Targaryen took way too much interest in Jon, and shared personal stories with him. It's highly doubtful that all of this build up was for nothing. Aemon, breaking the tie of votes between Jon and Alliser to be top dog.

Jon will be revived by Melisandre... or by the Old Gods and the New, I will end Benioff and Weiss.

FYP

Sandy Vagina 06-19-2015 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allen_kcCard (Post 11556839)
FYP

lol, nice! By Jupiter's cock, I fear that my Spartacus watching was mixed in there. :thumb:

mdchiefsfan 06-20-2015 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks (Post 11556893)
lol, nice! By Jupiter's cock, I fear that my Spartacus watching was mixed in there. :thumb:

LMAO

Buehler445 07-31-2015 08:56 AM

HBO announced they want to do an 8th season and a prequel. Don't have a link. The emergency awesome dude did a YouTube about it.

ThaVirus 07-31-2015 09:48 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing Rhaegar, the Mad King, Arthur Dayne, younger versions of Ned and Robert, etc.

Buehler445 07-31-2015 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 11629304)
I wouldn't mind seeing Rhaegar, the Mad King, Arthur Dayne, younger versions of Ned and Robert, etc.

Agreed. I think that is the way they'd go. But I'd be interested to see Aegon the conquerers conquest of westeros.

ThaVirus 07-31-2015 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11629513)
Agreed. I think that is the way they'd go. But I'd be interested to see Aegon the conquerers conquest of westeros.


That could be awesome as well.

The original Long Night with the First Men and Children of the Forest could be interesting also.

ChiefsNWildcats 07-31-2015 11:43 AM

I could see them rather doing Robert's Rebellion or Dunc & Egg just because of the lack of dragons/direwolves that would eat at their budget.

Buehler445 07-31-2015 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsNWildcats (Post 11629547)
I could see them rather doing Robert's Rebellion or Dunc & Egg just because of the lack of dragons/direwolves that would eat at their budget.

I would think they would want to not get too disconnected from the originals.

The Franchise 07-31-2015 01:22 PM

How long of a prequel though? Just one season? It'd have to be jam packed to fit everything in. I'd love to see Robert's rebellion though.

The Franchise 07-31-2015 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11629191)
HBO announced they want to do an 8th season and a prequel. Don't have a link. The emergency awesome dude did a YouTube about it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jhBvsjeOy_U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Buehler445 07-31-2015 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 11629793)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jhBvsjeOy_U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That's the one.

ChiefsNWildcats 07-31-2015 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 11629607)
I would think they would want to not get too disconnected from the originals.

I personally want to see Robert's Rebellion just because of all those characters involved. Baddass warrior's a plenty.

Buehler445 09-09-2015 11:11 PM

Can this show just get started already?

It occurred to me today how ironic it is that Brienne is trying to protect the Stark children with a sword that was forged by melting down Ned Starks sword, who gave it to Robb. Both of which were brutally betrayed in order to get the sword that she wields so well.

I wonder if she knows where the steel came from? I know Jamie knew.

Hawk 09-10-2015 09:34 AM

I'm pretty sure Jamie tells her it came from Ned's sword and that she would be using Ned's sword to try to save Ned's daughter.

RustShack 09-10-2015 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawk (Post 11715002)
I'm pretty sure Jamie tells her it came from Ned's sword and that she would be using Ned's sword to try to save Ned's daughter.

I believe so also.

Buehler445 09-10-2015 10:01 PM

I guess I forgot about Jamie telling her about it. Either way, it's kind of weird.

I can't embed this from my phone but it is a dude given a breakdown of why the Unsullied suck shit at riot control. Most of which has been posted here already, but it's an interesting watch.

http://youtu.be/4hQqr3Pbj7Q

BigRedChief 09-15-2016 08:08 PM

Bump for jasonauto

Found with a simple search

SAUTO 09-16-2016 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 12428981)
Bump for jasonauto

Found with a simple search

then why dont you stupid ****ing idiots that are bitching about spoilers post in the "spoiler free zone"


dumb mother****ers.


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