Maybe they want to see how his back checks out. But there is no denying that franchising a player you don't like at all is a bad/risky move.

Racist

Yes because a QB makes the LT better not theTho LT making the qb better.

Example. Would Thomas make Cassell better or would Geno make Albert beter.

Hard to say. Neither of them has a long-term contract.

A lot of what's gone on with Albert (eg trade rumors) could just be negotiating via the media.

Reid hasnt said anything about Albert so who knows what is going on.

Oh I think they're trying to or tried to trade Albert. But I also think they like him quit a bit. If they didnt they wouldn't have tried to trade him or would have taken whatever trade offer they'd have got to get rid of that salary

Didn't he talk about him during the league meetings? I think I remember some commentary about how he didn't play guys out of position and that he thought albert was a championship-caliber LT.

I'm going to let the actions of April 25th dissolve this Geno issue.

For as many people on the board who rip people for rationalizing Alex Smith, there are some damn good rationalizers for a QB that's not looked upon very well in a weak class.

That's all I've got to say about that.

Ironic statement, since the person that seems to be spending the most time talking about Geno is you.

So if the unimaginable happen and they pick him, you'll be pissed?

He said Albert was a Pro bowl caliber LT and Dorsey said Albert is the Future LT of this team for years to come.

We don't know that...in fact, they have said many times that they want Albert here long term.

At first, there was a rumor stating they wanted a 2 for him...then, it changed to a 2 and another pick...then, it was us wanting 2 second rounders for him.

It's ENTIRELY possible that they want keep Albert, but want to sign him after the draft so they can use trade conversations to gauge interest in an OT for draft value reasons.

Andy Reid brought up the McNabb situation as a rebuttal for us not targeting Geno...John Dorsey brought up the Aaron Rodgers situation...then, they raved about how they love his pro day tape and decide to bring him to KC for 2 days.

I still think Joeckel is gonna be the pick, but I also don't think Geno is out of the conversation yet.

I agree. I was just using Thomas as a Joeckel substitute and Bradford as a Geno sub. Since both of them can respectfully be considered the "ceiling" for arguments sake on each prospect, which player would benefit this team more? A top LT(Thomas/Joeckel/Fisher) or a good QB(Bradford/Geno)?

I think fisher is the pick if its a LT. Joeckel doesn fit what they seem to be looking for.


Again, I'd rather them target a pass rusher of some kind, or star. I think Star might be the best football player in the whole draft

QB without a doubt. Qbs have a impact on the team. A LT not so much.

IMO Floyd is better than Star.

This is just wrong. We don't have to devalue one spot to value another

In a perfect world, big Sheldon wouldn't have any off field concerns and we could plug him at the 3 tech and beat the shit out of opposing qbs

B Albert and Geno together would be a lot nicer than Joeckel and Alex together.

No I'll root for him because he's a Chief. I want any player drafted by the Chiefs to succeed, even if they aren't good prospects IMO.

I didn't like Dontari Poe that much but I still want him to succeed.

That's a whole different argument

Fair enough. And I doubt a "not good prospect" would be a top 10 pick but to each his own

How so. Thats basically according to everyone but me and Sweet Dick Willie is what is going to happen.

Geno will be the next Aaron Rodgers..

Than that should be the end of the argument. Unless of course you don't think QB is more important to the team than an LT.

Geno Elway. Bank it.
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No way.

A defensive player that doesn't offer you significant pass rushing upside can ever again be known as "the best football player in a draft".

I think he could develop that though, which is about the same you can say for all these guys at the top of the draft. Poe star and devito would be monsters up there.


Of course is like Richardson but that's a bit high for him

Exactly. I said star is basically a T jax. Gives you excellent run support but cant rush the qb to save his life.

I was gonna go with Geno Rodgers.

Star has the capability and upside of ngata if he developed right

Devito -starter pay
Poe - high pick
Jackson - re-signed for starter pay
Bailey - should be good fit in 1 gap
Powe - should be better in 1 gap

That's a good rotation...can't see them drafting Star, but I could be wrong.

Star would kick Tysons ass.

I agree that Star doesn't offer a lot of pass rush ability, but his ceiling is far greater than Jacksons.

No your right.

I could see wanting someone like Dion Jordan, but I just don't get the fascination with star or joeckel/fisher. Really limited return for your investment, particularly with Star. I want somebody who can change games with this pick.

Exactly.

I mean, isn't the sole purpose of that high of a pick to choose the guy that can impact wins and losses the most?

Pass rusher or quarterback.

Can't we at least entertain the thought that John Dorsey and Andy Reid are being genuine with their interest in Geno?

Or are we sold that they brought the guy to KC for a 2 day visit as a smokescreen?

I think star can but it would be an investment more than immediate. But like I said before that seems to be the 2013 draft early.


Richardson wouldn't be a bad pick either IMO.

I think they were or are somewhat interested but the acquisition of Alex smith changes things.


We need more pass rush from the dl. I think powe has ability and I think Poe will be a monster in there. But Richardson would make sense. Richardson Poe devito powe would rotate well

But would you feel comfortable drafting a rotational player with the first pick?

It's different. Because some of us are saying he's worth 1.1, your assuming he must be worth 1.? + top picks in this and/or next years draft. One pick, vs multiple high value picks.

RGIII brought a haul last year, does that mean every player ever to go 1.1 should? No. Don't be silly.

Nice.

I think it's the opposite. I think the initial decision on Alex Smith was made not only before we'd done due diligence on Geno Smith, but before we even had a GM. I think that's 100% Reid's hire and I think we were set down that path starting on day 1, during meetings between Clark and Andy. I think as they've gone through the evaluation process as a staff, I think the interest in Geno, which I think is genuine, has grown. I don't think Andy Reid, as an individual, could have had any idea about Geno when the Alex decision was made, because literally all of his time leading up to that point would have been absorbed with the day-to-day running of the Eagles. He'd probably seen him play, and I'm sure he knew who he was at the time, but I doubt seriously that he'd spent much time studying any player for the 2013 draft at that point. That's the whole point of all this evaluation they do in February and March, after all...

Now what they specifically think of him, in conjunction with the 1:1, I have no earthly idea. I'm not saying he's the pick when I say they have genuine interest. The genuine interest part was in reference to their interest at the Combine and his pro day, and the private workout last week.

No he doesn't.

Seriously.

The absolute upside to Starlite is Vince Wilfork. And that's being very generous.

The guy is a very good player, but he's not a penetrating type of guy. He's a two gap nose in either a 34 or 43. He's not a five tech and he's not a 1 gap upfield tackle.

He's a more polished, more experienced, better coached version of what we drafted last year in Dontari Poe.

But it would be absolutely redundant to think about picking him when we just took Poe with the #11 pick last year.

This is right on.

I think in a stronger LT class Joeckel is a mid-2nd round pick. He doesn't look good. If you're talking Fisher, you have a better argument, but Jokester is not even close to obvious #1.

That may be going a bit far on Joeckel. Mid-1st round pick maybe, in a stronger class. Maybe in the 20s. Mid-2nd seems a little overkill.

I would agree re: Fisher.

Kiper said in a normal draft Joeckel would be a 15-32 pick.

He's nowhere close to being the same type of player that guys like Okung, Long and Thomas were at the same stage.

Personally, I don't think he's as good as Clady or Costanzo or Solder or Sherrod or Oher at the same stage. And I don't think he's as good as Barrett Jones, who, as a junior, won the Outland Trophy at left tackle and just absolutely dominated guys from that spot.

And from what I saw this past year, he wasn't even the best offensive tackle on his college team.

RunKC is one of those weird dudes who refuses to like Geno regardless of how much production, information, et al. is out there that points to Geno absolutely being the top QB in this draft, and, IMO, the top prospect in this draft. He's fought against Geno for the better part of four months now and has been throwing out guys left and right trying to say that they are a better prospect than Geno. He's about the only guy left at this point (along than MahiMike). Personally, I think it's got to do with something beyond the football field, but whatev's.

Nope its either Geno or Fisher.

Possible butthurt about Tyler Wilson?

Remember how we all wanted Eric Berry in 2010 but we all thought there was no chance we draft him because of Piolis comment?

Hopefully, we have a similar high five session this year when we get what we want again.

Turned into a good thread. My logic was dumb, but I wanted to pose it anyways. So many people will be upset if we don't draft Geno, I didn't figure a whole lot of people would be upset if we did. So why the **** are we arguing this so much?

I don't know, but he's turned into a major negativist tool.

Maybe he's just so far up Kiper's butthole that he can't see the forest for the trees.

Not all of us did.

And Berry, despite his two Pro Bowl nods, needs to show up this next year as something other than the second best inside linebacker on the team.

Who says they don't believe in Albert you stupid ****? Andy Reid wanted to draft him, but the Chiefs beat him to the punch. Not to mention Dorsey said Albert is the future for us at LT...

Says who? The idiots on ESPN & NFLn? You do what is best for the future of the team. Trading a proven LT for a lesser and unproven LT is not good for the team now, and likely not later.

One in the hand is worth two in the bush. If Geno fails, we're out the #1 pick. If Joeckel were to fail, we're out the #1 and a top LT in the league.

What makes you so sure that they won't?

Is it not possible that they are letting his signing wait in order to confuse others about our draft intentions? You sign him now and Joker and Fisher are moot. If you go into the draft without having signed him, and draft Joeckel/Fisher #1, his trade value deflates. All of a sudden you're desperate to get rid of him.

10¢ head vs a smart QB like Geno. Gee, totally fair.

Even though most all media pundits now agree Geno is a legit top 5 pick and will be shocked if he's not taken there?

I'd throw Jordan in there.

Joeckel's ceiling is Joe Thomas, yet Geno's is Bradford?

What has Star done to make you believe he can rush the passer?

I just dont see how Jordan would fit in here. We already have Hali and Houston.

Were the first ever team in NFL History with the #1 draft pick who doesnt have any holes.

Post #290 is what I'm getting at. Guys like Solder, Constanzo, Sherrod looked about the same as Joeckel and dropped likely due to deep LT classes. I think the same would happen to Joker. People put too much into idiots saying "best tackle I've ever scouted". They were wrong.

This.

It's not the direction I'd go, but I'd rather see a 3rd pass rusher than another tackle or 5-tech. Especially if we're talking about somebody unspectacular like Joeckel.

This

And I wont be upset if they don't draft him either.

link?

Fun fact: since drafting Jamarcus Russel, the raiders have a better record than the Browns who drafted Joe Thomas that same year. Shows you the impact of even a great LT.
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You shouldn't be. The drooling fanatics are almost all on the Geno-or-bust side. Most of the Geno skeptics are open to the possibility that Reid/Dorsey will see something they think they can work with.

Jon Gruden brings the hammer down on the Geno hate.



When Geno Smith came in for QB camp, there were a couple of big questions to address in assessing his value.



For one, you start with the question of production. With Smith, the one I get asked is this: "Is this guy simply a product of a system?" I get it. Hey, those big numbers cut both ways. They might look good, but they also make scouts suspicious. Does the system create the quarterback, or is the quarterback maximizing the system? I mean, 42 touchdowns and six picks?



Here's what I see.







Maybe the system is great, but I don't know of a quarterback who has had as many decision-making opportunities as Smith had. And you know what? He made the right decisions. For instance: Every running play that was called, he had the option to hand the ball off, but he could also check out of the play and throw it. There were always options.

Every single play they could hand it off, or throw a bubble screen or a tap screen (he completed 112 screen passes in 2012) and as a product of some of those plays, you get hit in the face and you've got to be back on the ball again before you can even say, "West Virginia.'' There's a pace to the decisions. That offense would drive a lot of quarterbacks crazy. It's hard. It isn't just "easy production" -- it can simply look easy if you have a great decision-maker. I like the mental grind that he's been trained to deal with.



It's hard to find prospects such as Smith who possess that size and that speed, but it's also that ability to make quick decisions. I think it's a great accomplishment that he ran that offense like he did. I don't like to simply say because of a track record with a system, "He's got inflated production." I hate when people say that. It's bull. The same systems can produce entirely different prospects. Smith's given himself a chance to be the No. 1 pick in the draft because he can make decisions.



The second question I'm asked is: With the recent trends with read-option capability in guys like Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick and Robert Griffin III, is Smith really a threat in multiple ways? The numbers don't really point to that, after all. The guy had a total of 152 yards rushing last year. But as I said, he's not lacking speed.



I think what's most intriguing about him is that the read-option capabilities are there, even if we didn't see a lot of it. Look, I don't ever want to just have a quarterback come into the NFL and think he essentially majored in the read-option. In the current NFL, I think there's a place for it because it does regulate what the defense can do. You get to dictate matchups and create a threat if the guy has that running skill.



So if you can be a real threat to do that, like Wilson or Kaepernick can with the right combination of size and speed, and also master the protections and master the pocket like Smith is capable of, you create that double-edged combination. If that's what you want from him, I think he can be dangerous. The way I see it, if Smith gets with the right guy and can stay in the same system to develop, West Virginia coach Dana Holgorsen has proved how he can. So you can draft him having seen him adjust to a new system and take off.



Once you get those two questions out the way, you deal with the last one. The one I've been asked is whether this guy is truly worthy of a No. 1 pick.




I answer that by considering where he is not in every draft, but for this class specifically. In this class, I definitely think he's a guy you could take at No. 1, or at least in that range if it's your top need. Sure, a lot of people say he's not as good as Andrew Luck or Griffin. Well, last time I checked, those guys aren't in this draft. It's supply and demand. In this league, you need a quarterback, and if you're a general manager or a coach you can't just operate with the idea you're content to wait until you're in the perfect position to take a can't-miss prospect. In this class, the closest thing to that is Smith. And if I needed a quarterback, I'd be willing to take him high.



We know he can throw the ball. I think he certainly can get a little better at his footwork, and it's something I tried to point out in working with him. But we know and like the overall athleticism he has. In the end, I think he's going to be a heck of a player, and that also has to do with experience.



Smith has seen it all, and so as you evaluate, you can, too. You're getting to see a body of work over four years, and it's a big body of work. We saw him play in big games, and we saw him play under two different coaches. He's had an incredible amount of things happen to him. I like that he's come from Miami all the way to West Virginia and hasn't just played for the two coaches, but has also gone from the Big East to the Big 12. A lot of people don't think that's a big deal. It is. When they realigned the NFC and the Buccaneers went from the NFC Central to the NFC South, it was a bigger deal than people realized. Switching conferences and playing teams that you're not used to playing is a very big deal.



In the end, it comes down to upside. Smith is big enough, athletic enough and sharp in his decision-making. He's charismatic and passionate. In his case, and in this QB class, if the need is there, I'm not sure what else you're looking for

When 5 or 6 different people are peppering him with questions and challenges, he's naturally going to tend to have more posts on the subject than any one of them. That doesn't mean he's the primary reason the conversation continues though.

Of course he can be a read-option guy, because hes black.

:facepalm:

He can potentially be a read option guy because he's fast and because he's big enough to take the hits. Just because he didn't run a lot at WVU, doesn't mean he can't do it. He's certainly unproven, but he's not crippled.

Exactly. He can be a read option guy because he runs a 4.56. You can be a read option guy if you run a 4.56 if you are black, white, or red. He isn't saying Byron Leftwich could have ran the lead option here.

Not only that, the biggest reason he's capable is his ability to read defenses and make quick decisions. Which Gruden's proved he did on every play at WVU.

It has to do with Tyler Wilson. Just like ChiefsandO'sfan is now the same way....because of Barkley. They were all gung ho about their perspective QBs a while ago but as Wilson and Barkley dropped.....they became raging pro Alex Smith assholes. Now all they do is create posts like:

"Wait until April 25th.....you'll be disappointed."