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Peter King: You have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one
(https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=270181)
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It's a good thing I'm not petty and pathetic enough to keep track of your predictions. |
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Foles has more upside than Vick and Dixon COMBINED. |
There's also this little thought:
People keep saying Andy Reid drafted Foles and that's the connection. According to what some of the Eagles' fans posted here, Andy DIDN'T draft Foles. In fact, he didn't draft ANYBODY the last couple of years. That's why Reid is in KC and Howie Roseman is still in Philly. Roseman wrested control of personnel from Reid a couple of years ago with the backing of Jeff Lurie and Lurie has been tickled pink with the last couple of drafts. There's EVERY reason to believe that Roseman was the reason they drafted Foles. It's entirely possible Reid doesn't like him at all. |
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The Chiefs will draft a QB #1. |
My problem with Alex Smith is this...
His coach (who happens to be pretty good), decided he wasn't good enough, after a season and a half of decent play, and, for all intents and purposes, benched him. As for Foles (he's not going anywhere, btw), if he were to be traded, once again you've got a guy who was deemed not good enough. |
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Jim Harbaugh made the change because he felt Alex Smith's upside was something LESS THAN THE SUPER BOWL. That's the only reason to make that change when he made it - because he felt Kaepernick had Lombardi upside and Alex Smith didn't. Why anyone would want him here is beyond me. At VERY BEST, it's another Joe Montana lose in the AFC Championship scenario. Our team isn't NEARLY as good as the SF team, especially on defense. |
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Hey, I get it. You want the Chiefs to draft a quarterback. So do I. But don't destroy your own credibility with statements like that. |
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And somehow that's kind of grown to also mean they're trading for Foles, just because of media speculation. Unless I missed something there's been nothing about the Chiefs wanting Foles. |
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In fact, you haven't missed anything on the Alex Smith front either. Outside of Trent Dilfer's "my friend Alex Smith would be a good fit in KC because Andy Reid likes him" crap, there isn't an OUNCE of substance to those rumors. |
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I was only 11 hours late. |
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At this point in time, EVERYTHING, other than what Dorsey has specifically said, is pure speculation. |
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Harbaugh inherited a good Acura which he tuned up and drove. But before he could be sure of the Acura's performance he bought himself a Cadillac and kept it in the garage. When the Acura had an accident he fired up the Cadi and drove it. Having experienced driving the Cadi he now won't drive the Acura. The Acura is still a high end Honda, but not quite a Cadillac. That's all. I would buy an underpriced Acura in a scenario like that in a heartbeat. |
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...d-the-mvp-race and another: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...in-on-the-rise Right before he was injured, he was on a bunch of short-lists for the MVP. He had just had a run of weeks where he just kept making huge plays to swing the lead and he was getting a lot of MVP talk. AP hadn't had his massive streak yet (which started after Harvin went down) and the Broncos were just building momentum. You forget that was at about week 8; a lot of things changed over the last 1/2 of the season. But he's absolutely right - Harvin was getting plenty of discussion for the first half MVP. He wasn't the top candidate, but he we certainly a top 10 guy. |
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Joe Flacco isn't a Cadillac. |
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Look, I'm already letting Dane talk me into Nick Foles. :banghead:
There's not enough of my dignity left to let you talk me into Alex ****ing Smith. Ain't gonna happen... :D |
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They're different players, but Alex Smith would be far better in the WCO that Reid runs than Joe Flacco would be. |
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Dammit! Begone, Nick Foles! |
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I have no doubt Alex Smith would be ADEQUATE. I don't want adequate. |
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This perception that Harbaugh somehow fixed Alex Smith is just not accurate.
Harbaugh did freat job of masking Smith's flaws with scheme and play calling. He turned him into pretty good game manager that didn't lose games for them. Did Smith even average 200 yards a game? And Kyle Williams never gets to be the goat in that NFC Championship loss if Smith converts just 2 or 3 meaningful 3rd downs. |
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Posted via Mobile Device |
Is it bad draft value if you take a mid to late first round projected QB and he turns into the QBOTF?
Value or rather worth I guess seems to be a hindsight thing. We drafted Dorsey were he was slotted, but was that good value? In the end, it's about getting good players that fit your system and help you win. Who gives a shit about value. |
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this. I truly pray dorsey and reid arent the buffoons the media is hoping they will be...
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Here is a list of all the quarterbacks in the last 10 superbowls.
Brady/Collins Brady/McNabb Rothlisberger/Hasselback Eli/Brady Peyton/Grossman Rothlisberger/Warner Brees/Peyton Rodgers/Rothlisberger Eli/Brady Flacco/Kaepernick 13 quarterbacks. How many of them were better than Geno Smith COMING OUT OF COLLEGE? |
While I like geno as a prospect, it's getting a little overblown around here. Lets just let it play out.
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This shows that all qbs have warts coming out...especially the guys that made it to the biggest stage in the sport. |
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break it down homes, or shut it.
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Trying to insert something new into a conversation that has beaten every other discussion to death.
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i was talking to O.
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Youd have to go back to 1977 to find some dumbassed team building philosphy to compare with the bullshit spouted by King. By Sweet Dick Willie.
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shit, i dont even need HINDSIGHT to look at THAT and "lol"...
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If Rodgers isn't arguable, but there was a huge faction of the draft folks that thought Smith was better than Rodgers coming out of college, then isn't Smith also not arguable? The same logic can be applied to Rivers/Eli. Brees fell to the 2nd and wasn't Brees for 3 years. It's an odd question, really. BUt I think a fair statement is that many of those names could have been considered better than Geno coming out of college, but the only truly 'inarguable' example is Peyton Manning. Otherwise you have to put yourself in the position of claiming that Alex Smith was also better than Geno coming out. You wanna hitch yourself to that wagon? |
I think it's arguable that Geno isn't an inferior prospect to McNabb or Brees as a colle prospect. Brees had measurable issues and McNabb.
McNabb didn't even complete 55% of his passes as a sophomore or Junior. His highest yardage total of a season was 2488 yards His best year throwing touchdowns was 22. |
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He's superior as a prospect to Brees, period. Brees was coming out of the spread before the spread was en vogue, plus Brees is a midget. I think it's arguable whether or not he's a better prospect that Big Ben. Ben had some serious question marks coming out and he too came from a spread offense. Out of the guys on that list, the ones that were DEFINITIVELY better prospects than Geno, without the benefit of hindsight, are: McNabb Eli Manning Peyton Manning And that's about it. |
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If Smith takes his team to a championship game or Super Bowl by the end of his second season, the debate could be re-opened, depending on how that team was led. But at this point in time, before the Combines, before the Draft, before training camp, etc. it's just damn silly to make these comparisons. |
Here are some first round draft numbers:
Over the past 20 years, 45 QBs have been drafted in the first round. 29 of them (64%) had a better better win percentage during their time with the team that drafted them than that team had during the 3 years prior to their draft. That is to say, 64% of them improved their teams. That does not include Eli or Rivers, neither of whom played at all for the team that drafted them. Here are the percentage of first rounders by position that improved their teams: QB: 64% (Improved their team by an average of 0.58 wins/season) RB: 57% (0.48) DT: 55% (0.12) WR: 54% (0.27) S: 54% (0.42) DE: 51% (-0.08) OT: 51% (0.14) LB 51% (0.54) OG 45% (-0.05) TE 45% (-0.07) CB 45% (-0.31) OC 27% (-0.77) K 0% (-0.36) So. Draft a QB. |
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It's pretty much impossible to look at something like that with no hindsight glasses on, because we know the end game. We can take the scouting report they had as a prospect, hold it up to what they are now, and see what matches up. IMO, you can't effectively analyze and/or compare prospects accross time, because you can't take that element out of it. Which is why the whole Luck/RGIII stuff is somewhat overblown, just as the "he's no DT etc." |
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HUGE difference. Tom Brady won put a team on his shoulders and won a Super Bowl in Year Two. Kaepernick led his team to a Super Bowl in Year Two. Collins led the Panthers to the NFC Championship in Year Two. Etc. and so on. Just because scouts missed on guys doesn't mean that the players weren't ready to lead a team. |
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We know for a fact what those others DID as a pro. We have no idea what Smith will become. It's just not a real good road to head down, IMO. |
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Forgive me for listing the quarterbacks that have been to the recent superbowls and asking "what skills do these guys have that Geno doesn't and which were better PROSPECTS coming out of college. |
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YOU have no idea how Eugene Smith will play in the NFL. None. Not ONE iota. Because you WANT him to be drafted by the Chiefs and WANT him to play well, you're PROJECTING when in reality, you have absolutely no idea where he'll land or how he will perform. If you're going to ask that question of Smith, why not ask it of Nassib, Wilson, Glennon, Dysert and Manuel? And even if you did, it would be an empty response made up of pure CONJECTURE, not fact. |
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It's conjecture: Guys sit around and try to match players with needs. That's it. And they all read each other's mock drafts and influence each because they want to be seen as "right" at the end of the day. It's a pointless exercise, especially this early in the process. |
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I CLEARLY asked for everyone to look at the players that made it to the superbowl and then trying to look back at them WHEN THEY WERE COMING OUT OF COLLEGE and seeing how Geno stacks up to them at that point. If you don't think that can be looked at objectively, I guess I can't help you because all YOU ever saw were 2 ****ing games that Geno Smith has EVER played. His worst two games of his career, to boot. If someone else would have done that at any point in the last few years, you would clown them. Some of us have watched nearly every game of his from the last two years. |
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You asked who was better coming out of college. First off, that can't be answered because Smith hasn't played in the NFL yet but I think it's safe to say that many of those players, especially Brady, were missed by scouts. |
Chill out Dane, that's what he meant.
As a prospect, Geno is superior to guys who are 6 feet tall, and superior to almost every guy who only had one year of decent production...like Tannehill. |
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What matter is the GM of the Kansas City Chiefs said that there is NO QB in this draft worthy of a first round grade. Period. End of story. That's the SAME EXACT THING that's been said by reporters and scouts during the 2012 college season and the 2013 offseason. Now, due to need, a QB or two might be chosen in the first round but that doesn't mean that they're true first round talent. Some teams will just "roll the dice". All this blather and bluster about "I've watched "film" is ridiculous nonsense, especially BEFORE THE COMBINES. And JFC, the guy didn't show up at the Senior Bowl and those that did, sucked ass. So all this "Oh, the draft class is no weaker than in year's past" is absolute garbage. Especially considering not one of these guys has played a down in the NFL. |
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He's asking how Geno stacks up as prospect against how those guys stacked. Up when they were just prospects. It's not that ****ing hard. |
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FFS
I asked about them (ill put it caps, again...pay attention) AS THEY WERE COMING OUT OF COLLEGE. What the **** does that have to do with how they played as pros and how would it require ANY hindsight? |
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I guess that fact that scouts missed on Brady, Kaepernick, Wilson, Warner, etc. and so on means that Geno Smith will be the greatest ****ing QB of all time. Yay. |
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Shit, Bucky Brooks AND Pat Kirwan said he was going #1 this week. |
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