but why would they not include it until it's phased out?

silly

seems to me like Apple is trying to INFLUENCE the phase out as much as they are predicting it.

define "no longer a huge issue"?

if cnn, espn, abc and hulu are still using flash then it's a HUGE issue... even if just one or two of them are...

Set a time when you think 90% of the top sites (let's limit to top 100 sites and I am being generous here) have stopped using Flash...

Sometime in 2011? 2012? What quarter? (I won't even hold you to a month)

Until then, it is a HUGE issue... maybe for YOU it isn't, but MOST people enjoy watching a little streaming video at times without a seperate app or some hokey workaround.

Sure, but that is par for the course from them. People freaked out when they stopped including floppy drives with their computers, and then a year later, everyone was doing it. But all you have to do is look at Flash implementation on things like the JooJoo and netbooks to see how much it sucks on them.
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That is exactly what they are doing, FLASH is a bulky resource hog and Apple wants to avoid using adecent processor or RAM ... SO once again they have gotten lazy and arrogant in thinking that THEY can dictate the standards instead of adapting to the market... last time they tried this, they almost went bankrupt...

JooJoo yes.. Netbooks??? Where do you get this? I have worked on at least TEN different netbooks and not seen a SINGLE issue with flash... not once.

They don't have to stop using Flash, merely provide some kind of alternative. So, I won't bet on stopping using it. Providing a decent alternative, I will say 2nd quarter next year.
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I have an HP Mini 311 with ION graphics and it still has major issues playing Hulu videos. It is nearly impossible to watch that site, even with the latest Flash beta version.
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It isn't lazy and arrogant to not want to provide something that doesn't work very well on their machine.
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90% of the top 100 provide a decent alternative by Q2 next year ??? I'll take that bet! And again, this CAN NOT be a seperate app. I'm sorry but there are some sites I check once a month, I'm not going to download an app for that... MOST PEOPLE won't.

btw.. you do realize that makes the Ipad a piece of crap for a user like me until a full YEAR from now... my GUESS is quite a few nicer FLASH supporting devices will have passed it by then...

but back to the bet...

Do you have the same Flash problems with other video sites?

That is NOT a flash issue btw... it is a HULU issue. they have quite possibly the worst most resource intensive video delivery i have ever witnessed... my DESKTOP sometimes has issues with them... but never with anyone else...

it is when OTHERS go the extra mile to make it work, instead of just saying .. F--- that, we'll just lie and tell everyone that since it sucks and HTML5 is "almost out"... we decided to not include it for your own good...

I can't stand the "for your own good".. "in your best interests" mentality...

Why can it not be a separate app? Especially if it is free. Downloading an app isn't exactly a chore.

And it may not be a good thing for you, but that doesn't make it a piece of crap. That is a silly statement to make about nearly ANYTHING, not just the iPad.
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Some, yes. Youtube is about the only one that doesn't give me huge issues, and that is only because of the recent Flash beta.
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So you're saying that Flash does not have issues? I don't think it has anything to do with "for your own good," but because it just doesn't work well on their portable devices. There is no reason they have to use something that is just going to cause issues for the users. That is not apple's style.

BTW, I've been typing all of this on the iPad and love it. So easy to type on. Very very quick.
Posted via Mobile Device

You geeks are getting a little testy in here. It's almost as bad as the pro-Cassel and anti-Cassel debate. Hey, I wonder if Cassel likes the iPad? Maybe we can combine it, LOL.