I suppose that the plane running out of fuel might explain why it could have crashed on land and been unnoticed. A very remote location, no fuel so less fire than there might otherwise have been, etc etc

You wonder if Cambodia or these other countries have much in the way of detection capability anyway

The US is running the investigations of the manifest, the fraudulent passports, and the activities of those using them?

Or are they just preparing a very specific commemoration ceremony?

The people running those investigations apparently don't think there's much to it.

AFTER their investigation.

Right.

And AFTER their investigations, people in the US government are still saying that it could be terrorism.

True civilian radar only goes so far. Even out over the Gulf of Mexico you fly into areas that do not have civilian radar or radio.

You spend your time watching the clock and position reporting on the radio.

Is that really a big insistent clamor now today?

Right now, it's a MYSTERY

COULD be aliens.

What's the jag to criticize some ephemeral 'Americans' all the sudden?

See your point. It could happen on a random remote island, but not anything civilized with an airport on it, otherwise radar would of picked them up.

Again, apparently it's also the type of radar. They key to the transponder not the physical signature, and if the transponder goes off, they're blind to it.

Yes if they have a commercial or international airport, there is a chance they have approach radar monitoring their shorelines.

Because the jump to "terrorism" seems to have become some kind of rallying cry with the government.

Hey, we need to slip in some really sleazy legislation, let's create a terrorism whirlwind so nobody notices.

EDIT: We, as a country really, have just become so sensationalistic and emotionally reactive. It gets old.

Again, WHO is in a terrorism whirlwind right now?

And why create a whirlwind if you don't want anyone to notice your legislation?

Nevermind.

That is true from a reporting aspect, but most radars would at least report back an unidentified object. It should of be able to give them altitude, direction and speed. They wouldn't have the signature of the plane in that returned radar ping without the transponder working.

Aliens?

Exactly

LOST

Remember a few years ago a distraught Gay Air National Guard pilot broke from formation and flew his A10 out of gas into the Rockies. It was several days before they found the debris and they had a much better idea of the search area. The 777's debris field would be much larger, but the jungle and the size of the search area could keep the crash concealed a while.

* Only mentioned the Gayness because the Gay Lobby wants history text books rewritten to include sexual orientation of historical figures. Just complying with their wishes.

China May have found sat. images on Sunday of the wreck - being released today

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...tellite-images

I vaguely remember that. It was weird.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_D._Button

Was he really a member of the Gay Air National Guard? This article mentions a girlfriend.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...00-pound-bombs

Craig Button wasn't gay
http://www.nytimes.com/1998/12/25/us...l-anguish.html

At the time they said that he was in a same sex relationship that went sour because his partner wanted to be out, but the military and his mom wouldn't accept it. Funny how the story changes.

Dying in a plane crash can really change a man.

no, there were unsubstantiated rumors of that, but the investigation dispelled it.

Now it seems that the plane transmitted Engine Data back to rolls Royce for ~4-5hours after the last confirmed location - perhaps traveling up to 2,200 nautical miles

it could be anywhere in this circle
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BilRYRiCYAAiRmV.jpg:large

Fox News is reporting within the last hour that no debris was found at the location of the Chinese satellite images either.

This thing is taking an even more bizarre turn, if that was possible.

So no debris found and it apparently flew a further 5 hrs. than previously thought....holy shit just when you believed this couldn't get any more weird...

The Clayton Hartwig incident aboard the USS Iowa was supposed to be about a homosexual relationship, but they changed that one up too. I think the military just denies and omits it from the reports. I think both cases were correct from the beginning, but then again the media originally said Zimmerman was white. Who knows.

that's a big circle.

it makes me wonder if they could have had a situation similar to Payne Stewart where everyone lost consciousness on the plane.

looking at that Circle, wouldn't the land-based radars have picked them up if they were crossing any of the land masses?

Yes they would, especially something as big as a 777. I have flown international on a 777, they are ****ing huge...

Depends how low it was flying. It's tricky to fly a jumbo that low especially over that terrain.
They're now saying that atleast 1 of the planes engines checked in and reported it was doing 480 knots for 4 hours after contact was lost with the Cabin and by radar. Speculation is now that it could possibly have landed in Pakistan.
Fascinating mystery. Astonishing how inept Malaysia and her neighbors are.

Based on this quote alone its range would of decreased by 60-70%.

Think about this, the jet I fly burns around 1350 lbs a fuel per hour per side at 3000 ft. Yet at 41000 feet we burn around 575lbs per hour per side.

2700 lbs at 3000 feet per hour
1150 lbs at 41000 feet per hour

So the lower the big heavy 777 flies with 2 engines having to produce more power/thrust to push it through the air heavier denser air. It will probably burn 3 times the fuel than at cruise altitude, if not more.

I don't know the burn rates of the 777, just understand air density and turbine engines fuel burn rates.


Lower ='s dramatically decrease in range
Higher ='s normal cruise range

That is just under the prototypical cruising speed for a 777.

Although, if it was flying low (CAT I/II) the fuel burn rate would be very high. Enough to burn at 4hrs at almost cruising speed? Depends on how much fuel was in that A/C.

I work in the airline industry & this has people stumped big time. More & more people are slowly thinking, maybe this bird is on the ground somewhere?

My pilot buddies and I agree....

Could YOU solve the mystery of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight? Satellite images made public to help locate MH370 jet

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...MH370-jet.html

So it was aliens?

probably because the only statement about that was made under extreme duress and quickly recanted. You should do some research and quit just listening to Fox news.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iow..._media_reports

Wow. I presume that the background of the pilots is being thoroughly investigated?

how would you have radio silence though? Somehow along the way someone would have gotten a text or call out wouldn't you think, if everyone is alive?

I think it's Payne Stewart v2.0.

Yeah, it's kind of harsh but my first thought when this story broke was "I'd never board a Malaysian Airlines flight."

U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane Flew On for Hours


U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

Aviation investigators and national security officials believe the plane flew for a total of five hours, based on data automatically downloaded and sent to the ground from the Boeing Co. BA 777's engines as part of a routine maintenance and monitoring program.

That raises a host of new questions and possibilities about what happened aboard the widebody jet carrying 239 people, which vanished from civilian air-traffic control radar over the weekend, about one hour into a flight to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur.

If I remember correctly, when Payne Stewart died something happened with his plane to where there was a loss of cabin pressure, everyone would have blacked out soon after, and the plane flew on autopilot until it ran out of fuel, or something of that nature. I wonder if that happened here?

That is a real headscratcher. It's flying for at least 5 hours, 4 of those are presumably at low altitude since no radar picked it up and it's burning fuel at a high rate. It's gotta be on the ground in a hostile country.
What communication method do the engines use to report home? It's odd that that comes through fine, but India never made radar contact.
It's hard to believe anyone would be able to fly that jumbo that low for that long over that terrain.
Someone mentioned Aliens. Crazy, but it makes as much sense as all the other theories so far.
Remember the crazy story of Flight 19 where squadron of F6's got lost in the Bermuda triangle and no trace was ever found. This is sure getting like that.

Actually that was CNN. Fox news wasn't around during the Hartwig explosion. Wish Fox news was around then since they wait for accuracy before reporting like CNN or NBC. Sorry if you're Gay and butt hurt about how the liberal media reported these incidents. Accuracy is much more important than knowing the genital preference of historical figures.

The 777 should have dropped the air masks in that event. Even if a door fell off, the masks would've dropped and the Cockpit should have enough air to allow staff to get masks. Autopilot should have put the plane in a very radar rich position. No Autopilot and I would imagine it would go down pretty fast, not stay up for 4 extra hours.

And people being able to board these flights with stolen passports is not?

If it was a freak accident, it may not happen again.
If it was some ****ed up militant group, it probably will

I've been thinking the same thing, but I don't know if there's a non radar flooded route there. South Korea's US base would surely pick it up. Kim Jong UN would be foolish to piss of the Chinese, but then again he's foolish.

Why can't they triangulate where the engines reported from? Anyone know?

It depends on how many data collection points got the data. If it's only 1, they can't triangulate anything.

True, but I figured after 4 hours at 480 knots, it would probably be out of range of the original data collection point. What I haven't heard is what type of communication the engines use.
I wonder if the reporting engine story will go away as BS like most all leads in this story have.

777's uplink everything via GPS from what I am told.

So if it's a sat link, they probably only have one. Right?

Should have two of them. All systems have a redundant system.

Then triangulating the signal origination is theoretically possible.

If it was online long enough it could be possible.


This has more twists than a bag of pretzels....

If that's the case, why is this plane "missing"?

depressurization happens rapidly, a healthy person has only seconds to get a mask on, the depressurization creates hypoxia and sucks the 02 out of the atmoshpere almost instantly.

they are saying the report about the engine transmission is false.

I'm starting to suspect that a roc nabbed it in mid-air and took it back to its nest.

If not that, my money is still on a Payne Stewart scenario.

I heard an interesting wacky theory a couple nights back that maybe it was hijacked, but for ransom rather than as a terrorist act. Along the lines of what somali pirates have been doing for years.

That would be interesting. But it sure seems like it would be a lot harder to pull off than just getting a ship. I'm not sure why you'd go to the trouble.

I'd heard somewhere on the news or in this thread that terrorists sometimes try stuff in the third world before attempting it in America or Europe, so conceivably they could have tested an approach on this plane and then either finished it off via suicide or took it somewhere.

Or I wonder if perhaps they were figuring out how to cut off oxygen or depressurize the plane without the crew knowing. (I'm stuck on this Payne Stewart theory.)

I don't think it's terrorism. That's just the default answer for everything right now. My personal pet theory is that somebody shot it down.

Now the US ts sending the USS Kidd to the Indian Ocean to start searching. Is it me or does it seem there is no coordinated plan between countries going on here.

Why is the US taking such a lead on this? It wasn't their plane.

The US has to stick their nose into everything. Maybe we will throw a billion in taxpayer money at it?

The plane was built by Boeing. That's critical in these sorts of investigations.

Imma go with the Aliens theory. It's the funnest.

My guess is we are sending the USS Kidd because the Indian Ocean is the opposite direction as to where everyone else is looking and we typically have naval ships near the Indian Ocean and or that's the Kidd's normal AO.

Ok...well....that's cool and all but....


I'M guessing that we are sending the USS Kidd out there because there is a known Alien spacecraft that was shot down out in the Indian Ocean and the U.S needs to get to it before the rest of the world so we can duplicate the alien technology.

I work for the company that manufactures oxygen systems for every type of aircraft, including the airplane Stewart was flying on.

We received the parts from that aircraft to determine what happened. After investigating with the FAA and aircraft experts it was determined that the last time there was service on the pilot's crew mask they did not reengage the crew masks with the oxygen system. Pilots donned the masks, but there was no oxygen.

The crew masks on the 777 have to be engaged with the O2 system. There are warning signs that something is wrong it that's not the case.

The Payne Stewart theory doesn't really explain why the plane wasn't picked up on radar or why their transponders (or whatever they're called) just stopped working.

So let Boeing assist as much as possible. Keep the United States MILITARY out of it unless Malaysia asks for support.

One ship and a couple of planes isn't exactly taking the lead.

Do not forget that 4 Americans were on the plane, we take care of our own.

I'm sure we can find a reason to bomb some natives.

If there was either a rapid depressurization or a slow one, the flight crew and passengers may have been incapacitated. if the autopilot was not active at the time, the plane could simply have nosed into the ocean. In the middle of the ocean there is no radar. The lack of debris field is confusing, especially considering the Gulf is only a max of about 240ft deep at the deepest. But it's very difficult to see anything at sea, so unless there is a large debris field it could take a while for anything to be stumbled upon.

Oh. Or perhaps I should say O2.

Well, yeah, there's that. Maybe the transponder lost consciousness too.

Really? Governments are always part of International flight investigations that crash. Especially the departing country, arrival country and aircraft manufacturing country.