There isn't a single person outside of KC who would take Alex Smith over Eli Manning, and it's not even close.

You guys are out of control with your Bowe comparisons.

The Otis Taylor comparison is very accurate.Who's been better or as good as Otis? That answer is Bowe no question.

Bingo

I don't see the difference. If you're implying he seems lazy, it's either because he's being lazy or he's playing slow. Think that's a cop out to blame that on the QB. You have to play hard no matter what, and he's played for some shitty QBs before.

I think he'll be fine. But something doesn't seem completely right, and it's on him, not anyone else, to fix it.

True. But based strictly on this year, I'd take Alex Smith.

Eli has been terrible.

I was mainly referring to the Demaryius Thomas comment. Bowe is similar to Boldin also. As for Otis Taylor I can't comment on that since I never saw him play.

But if Bowe is so similar to Boldin, why wouldn't he make a good fit as a slot receiver at some point? Boldin has been in the slot almost his entire career. We need another outside guy for that to work though.

I've mentioned in a few threads, I love the Eli Manning type QB. But it is absolutely moronic that the Giants refuse to give him a RB worth a damn. Eli is at his best when he can play the style of football the Chiefs are playing right now.

There is a real possibility that he just isn't very "polished" anymore.
Think about how many games in his career that he has dominated the whole game, and then think about how many garbage yards he has. Most of them are garbage yards.
He has been on pretty shit teams playing from behind for his whole career.
It's easier to beast on a CB when you are just running 10-15 yards and being asked to out physical him. Bowe isn't a very crisp route runner IMO. Andy Reid knew all about Bowe and deemed him worthy of an extension. He must have a plan for him.

Maybe we are only seeing version 1.0 of this O so far this season.

You've posted this shit before. You don't have the first damn clue.

Prove it.

I guess its no coincidence that he has been going down field more.
Hes had some pretty good success doing to too. Gotta be good for his confidence in doing so, I would imagine.

LOL, the defender of Smith strikes once again!! I've qualified that already.

Oh well maybe good timing for this article to come out and time for Dwayne Bowe to take it out on raider scum.

I don't defend Alex, I'm a caller of bullshit.

Prove that Reid was yelling at him for not throwing deep.

I don't have access to NFL Films, but it was during the 2nd Quarter like I stated.Alex had his helmet off with his hands on his waist, and Andy had his clipboard pointing at area in the field. The bolded part is new addition from my original post.

Shit, I got the same goddamn grief when I was criticizing Cassel.

I think this is likely. They haven't really executed what they have done so far very well, so I think they need to do that before they try to do more.

Certainly not from me.

Yup. I was watching Andy Reid's FX. 3 minutes in, you see him coaching McNabb and you just know he's saying the same things to Smith.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fSvvGStFQCc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't buy the idea that Reid is settling for Alex Smith's play. His attention for detail in watching the QB is stunning.

Doesn't really matter.

4 years of Alex, no Super Bowl, Bowe retires....we'll move on and see if we finally ever ****ing get it.

Thank you for this.
Very nice.

What a great hire. World class coaching right there.

You do realize theirs other ways of winning superbowls without elite level quarterbacks right? The quarterback we have damn near made it to a superbowl so he's not as bad as your making him out to be you ungrateful bastard lol.

He's not very good. Bowe is proof.

Pssst.

Just ignore him.

You're an idiot. Every post you make is proof.

Bowe would have more catches if Alex would stop throwing shitty passes.

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/badalex.gif

Alex is 7 for 25 this year throwing outside the numbers in the 10-19 yard range. That is Bowe's bread and butter.

I'm sure that's all Bowe's fault, though.

NO WAY

Trent Dilfer doesn't have a superbowl.

Oh he does

Well surely Peyton has more then him

oh he doesn't

People look at the QB way to much. Qb is the most important spot on the field but there's more to football then QB folks.

At 3:59 you can see why Andy Reid has always liked Smith. Telling Mcnabb you just take what they give you, take it as quick as you can get rid of the football. He tells Mcnabb don't worry about down and distance just get rid of it and let someone make a play.

I agree with you, this is all on Alex, you're telling me that Bowe has the shitty Matt Cassell throwing to him and his yards were fine and now all of a sudden he cant do anything

I could use or horrible season last year compared to or 5-0 start this year as proof the chiefs are better when Bowe isn't playing as well as he has in previous years lol. Mcgrath looks good,Avery has his moments,charles is effective as a reciever. Its no reason to expect well never win long term just because we aren't winning how you expected for us to win. More than one way to skin cat.

Alex was one play away from going to the superbowl man I think that's proof enough he can get back as the starting qb in the right system. If you have other qb's who have been to superbowls and won we could've had I'm all ears as that's just about the only thing that supercedes what Alex has done. You talk about proof but many of you sound like you want a young quarterback who has proven nothing that can give you highlights like the dick vermeil era lol.

I agree offense needs work but cmon. His overall win record and 5-0 win record this season are proof enough. I don't care if his lucky socks are the reason his win records so impressive lol

Maybe Bowe can get some tips from McGrath and Donnie Avery.

Bowe has Always had games where he didn't do much ALWAYS

2010 his best year in the 2 games combined against the Chargers he had 2 catches for 16 yards He also got shutout against Denver that year.

2011 he had 2 games with 2 catches for 17 yards

Last year he got shutout against the Bengals

But yes this is new with Smith

I care. Lucky socks are bound to get thrown in the laundry at some point.

I'm thrilled that the D is carrying the team and ST is doing more than their fair share. Eventually, though, its gonna come down to Alex Smith taking this team down the field whether they want to or not. I don't know he can do that.

He did it last sunday no one gives him credit for it

I am really looking forward to finding out.
He seems to rise to the occasion more often than not, and win however is needed.
Cant wait to see what happens when some points are needed nearly every drive.

Not really. I dont think thats what he means.

The D played damn good in TN.

The D was OUTSTANDING 3 of the 4 quarters

They had an off 3rd quarter hey it happens and gave up the lead Smith took them right back down the field and got the lead back now can it do it most the time I don't know we will see

Lol,I think many of us Chief fans just suffer from PTSD after seeing defenses blow so many leads that we don't feel comfortable unless the offense scores 30 points or have a 3 touchdown lead lol. I can't lie that feeling still creeps up that the game is over and we blew it soon as an opposing team gets momentum. But I'm slowly breaking out of it

We shouldn't be happy with the offenses performance because they can be better I believe. But if our defense improves even a little which is hard to imagine,great defenses have just as good a shot at a superbowl as a high powered offense these days.

I know that feeling.

And the offense HAS to get better but when they have needed it most the offense has gotten the job done at the end of games. It hasn't been as bad as some make it out to be. But It HAS to get better. Hopefully as Alex gets more time with his WRS he feels better with then and it does.

At somepoint he may need to pick up the slack if the defense falters. But let's not forget we have arguably the best running back in the game who can lead us down the field. Id actually rather have Jamal run more early on and force the issue and establish the run just to see what happens. You have a guy who can break a 60 yard run on any given carry,if that could be established early on maybe it would make things easier on alex smith?but I know how Andy Reid works and he's pass happy and this is the system. But I can't help but think if we established the run BEFORE the 4th maybe in turn Alex Smith looks better too. I think the trend has been he's played better in the 4th in a few games as our running game becomes more succesful iirc. People seem to be more worried about one more than the other when I think its a good chance for this team especially they go hand in hand.

I watched the play 20 times. You're dead wrong.

Bowe did not fight to cross the corners face.

Why does Eli Manning constantly get a pass?

He's ****ing awful and has regressed worse than any "future HOF" QB I can ever remember. He's not 40 years old here. This should be his absolute prime.

Aaron Rodgers gets sacked a shit ton and still can direct an offense.

Brady is playing with NFL strike level replacement WR's and he's 4-1.

Eli Manning completely sucks. His team sucks, but he's front and center on the complete "I blow" bandwagon.

Capt. Checkdown won't throw the damn ball to our #1 WR = Bowe is lazy and selfish..

I have replayed 4 of the games and watched to see what's up with Bowe. You are on the money when you talk about separation or in this case, lack thereof. Most of the time he just isn't getting open.

I listen to Lenny during the games and lack of separation is a common theme, for most of our receivers.

jesus, even other QBs make fun of Smith's checkdowns:

Avery is on track for a career year. If he slows down it's good to have someone like Bowe to step up.

Otherwise, it seems like some people are upset that the QB they didn't want isn't throwing to one of their favourites.

Pryor can talk all the shit he wants, but our D is going to drive a combine right up his anus.

Yep, Pryor will get a chance to back up his mouth Sunday and showcase his "superior game." :drool:

Is this the Chief for life, not money thread?

...this never would've happened if he didn't point at his name...:doh!:

He won 2 Super Bowls, and yes, he deserves a ton of credit for those wins even if he had a good supporting cast. He also gets a pass because regular season be damned, there are few QBs I'd want above him in the postseason.

Eli and Rodgers are two different QBs. Rodgers and Peyton are two guys who can carry a bad team on their back, but their style of play is flawed too. They play so up-tempo that the team isn't built to be elite in the 4th quarter. Eli is what I call an elite game manager. But to be successful, he has to have a good running game to help control the tempo of the game. That's not too much to ask for. Right now, his running game is an absolute abortion.

/thread

"Elite game managers" don't throw the ball to the other team as much as they throw it to their own team.

Game management is about controlling the tempo. It's what the Chiefs are doing now. It's how the Jets made two straight NFC championships with Sanchez. It's how Baltimore won last year's Super Bowl. You can't do that if your running game is the worst in the league.

And again, Big Ben and Eli have had some miserable turnover-ridden seasons. But in the playoffs, they are incredible game managers. They take what the game gives them, control the tempo, and then dominate the 4th quarter.

Eli got incredible lucky to win 2 SBs, based on two flukey plays. He's absolutely not an elite qb, he's much too erratic

Yep, but you stated:

Quote:

I think Ben and Eli are in a much different league than Alex, because they've proven they can win plenty of games where they didn't get much help.

Remember that this was a 2-14 team just last season. These same guys that Alex Smith is working with now were directly associated with the epic shitfest of last season. Now, with them being 5-0, the rest of these 2-14 guys are world beaters and it's Alex Smith that's the standard bearer of mediocrity?

Smith is 26-5-1 over the last three seasons, and that includes QB'ing teams that were coming off of horrendously bad seasons like the 2011 49ers and the 2013 Chiefs. That sure makes a case of him being able to win plenty of games. In comparison, both Raperburger and Eli are coming off recent Super Bowl victories and yet are QB'ing two of the worst teams in the league this season.

So, which is it? A mediocre guy like Smith takes the reigns of tragically bad teams and leads them to division first place status, or two Hall of Fame QB's with recent SB winning teams leading their teams into the cellar?

Calvin Johnson has shutout games all the time with Stafford.

The flukey play to David Tyree was a superhuman effort to escape pressure (and even if he doesn't catch that, it still would have been 4th and 5). And it doesn't change the fact that he then marched the team into the end zone.

Not sure what other flukey play you're talking about. But 2 fluke plays shouldn't erase that 5 of the 6 games, Eli played terrific football. I'm bothered when people say any QB could win Super Bowls with their supporting cast. I don't think many of the elite QBs would have won a Super Bowl with that cast. It's because people find efficiency unimpressive. And that's a shame, because the efficiency model has been just as successful as the explosive offense model.

I would. All day long.

Eli Manning, with the exception of what someone could consider an epiphany level moment in the playoffs in 2011, has consistently been a .500ish level performing QB that has been supported by a very good defense, wide receiver corps and running game. Prior to the 2007 SB, there were whispers of the concept of "bust."

Now that the Giants don't have that running game or defense, Manning is being exposed. Go look at what he is directly responsible for in terms of the Giants and their record this current football season. The guy is an absolute interception machine who is making horrible decisions with the ball.

Some people around here get completely enamored by what's on the back of the jersey and what the east coast media bias wants them to hear.

Bowe has the ability to make circus catches while covered.

Alex Smith doesn't throw circus balls very often.

We've never seen this reincarnated form of Alex Smith play without a solid running game and elite defense. We have no idea what he would look like.

Probably wouldn't throw as many picks as Eli is, but INTs aren't everything.

Alex Smith isn't QBing a 2-14 team from 2012. He is QBing the 7-9 team in 2011 (that could have been even better, if not for the poorly conditioned first 2 games, and having to play behind Tyler Palko for the other games).

I said these guys can win regardless of supporting cast. I'll make one exception. They need some hint of a Running Back. Their Running Backs are embarrassingly bad. I guarantee if you give both those guys a decent RB, they're elite QBs again. And with those guys, I don't take much stock in the regular season. They've both taken bad regular season teams to Super Bowls.

no, that isn't true. Smiff doesn't spend ALL GAME throwing at tight spots, that is true. But, he will do it -- hence, we see him throw into tight cover during the fourth qtrs. It's working for this team.

You've gone off the deep end with your qb thoughts. Ints aren't everything? Really?

Don't back track.

You said that they were elite, Hall of Fame level QB's that can carry their team.

They aren't, and they can't as evidenced by this seasons dismal performance.

However, in the same post, you discount Smith as a pile of shit who's only winning with superior players around him, even though he took a horrible 2010 49er's team to the NFC championship game in 2011 (and lost it due to a special teams turnover) and has the 2-15 Chiefs in 2012 at 5-0 in 2013.

But Eli and Raper are HOF's that can carry bad teams and Smith is a schmuck who needs elite talent around him to win.

Delusional post is delusional.

If you're putting up one TD per int, yes. You can still win. ESPECIALLY with this defense.

Alex Smith has had a shitload more talent than Eli has had. In the 2007 SB, his receivers were a geriatric Amani Toomer and Steve Smith, and a running game not nearly as solid as Frank Gore or Jamaal Charles. In 2011, he had the worst running game in the league and threw for 4,900 yards.

No. I get enamored by 2 Super Bowl rings, 2 Super Bowls that he earned... big time. And I'm also realistic to know that Eli needs some level of help, but when he gets that help, he wins big games in ways that his brother and guys like Aaron Rodgers can't. And until Smith proves otherwise, Eli can play the same game as Smith, but also make big plays and throw to the sidelines.

Smith would be a disaster in Eli's offense, and so would Flacco. That's on the Giants' front office, not Eli.

When did I say Smith is a pile of shit? I've repeatedly commented that QB efficiency is highly underrated. But to be an efficient QB, you have to build a team a certain way. Eli and Big Ben have done that. But there's only so far you can take that. Their running games aren't just bad. They are an absolute joke.

Eli and Big Ben are different animals. They have an unusual knack for playing down to the competition. They play amazing football when their team ends up in a shootout, and play frustrating football when the defense is playing really well. But they somehow consistently manage to get their team into a 4th quarter situation they can win.

Smith is doing something similar. Except instead of throwing INTs, he's throwing more bad passes than he needs to.

We had this conversation Thursday night. Because Eli won 2 SBs, he can't be criticized.

If I have to have halo like you say, I'm not paying a qb 21 million dollars to do that, when it severely restricts what players I can out around him to help.

No, YOU'VE gone off the deep end with your Martyism.

It's bad if a QB throws 20+ INTs the way Eli is set to do, but if he accompanies his high turnover rate with yards, a high completion percentage, and SCORES, then it's not the worst thing in the world.

A QB with nothing else at all going for him except for low INT numbers isn't so much QBing a team as much as he is wasting everybody's time.

If I have to pick one or the other, give me the hot cannon.

So no, INTs aren't everything. That's like saying a RB's #1 job is to not fumble.

Matt Cassel 2010 vs. 2011.

Eli Manning 2013 vs. 2010.

INTs are huge. All turnovers are huge.

They usually happen on the wrong side of the field resulting in exponential point swings.

It's why Marty's Chiefs teams were so successful - they made a specific point to be on the positive side of the turnover margin. Reid does that as well and you are seeing a direct corollary to that in this years record versus last years record.

Smith does one thing exceptionally well - he doesn't put the ball into the defenses hands. That alone gives you a huge leg up in terms of game planning, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Field position, attacking, etc. that we are currently seeing from the Chiefs in 2013 is all predicated on the concept that the offense will be methodically consistent and provide opportunities to put points on the board without giving the opposing team the chance to do the same thing.

And this is the specific reason why Smith isn't targeting Bowe as much as some think he should around here. Bowe isn't making a case for the ball with solid positioning and separation. It's the Dwayne Bowe of the past five years who has made a career of going to get the ball by his own volition through strength and muscle once the ball is in his general area. Smith wants a guy who's already open after a clean, precise break that will allow the receiver to get YAC once they have possession of the ball.

Bowe has been sloppy. Bad habits are hard to break. And his reception totals are reflective of his own on-the-field work ethics. However, hopefully, he, Smith and the coaching staff recognize this and are working it out. He's too talented not to be winning in single coverage situations, especially in this day and age of the NFL. However, as of right now, he's not winning. The Giants and Titan CB's made that painfully obvious.

So, in contrary to what you stated earlier, Manning and the Raper need a solid running game and defense to be elite, even though they are HOF'ers who can carry bad teams to wins, but Smith is still a schmuck because he's got a 2-14/7-9 team 5-0.

Gotcha.

Bowe will be fine just give him more targets!!!!!

What I don't get is why people are so critical of Eli Manning because of 2 Super Bowl runs, yet wash the balls of QBs like Brees and Rodgers who won one Super Bowl but have been otherwise very forgettable playoff QBs outside of that one single run.

Winning 2 SBs is no small accomplishment, and I don't think many QBs could have done it even with that team. I give Eli a halo because regardless of how he plays in the regular season, there are few QBs better than Eli I'd rather have once I get in the playoffs.

So here we are again with the "give me the big downfield passer over anything" mantra?

You know an all-time great NFL QB who threw a ton of picks?

Brett Favre. In fact, he's got the NFL record for most picks in a career.

You know an all-time great NFL QB whose best quality was not throwing INTs?

Umm..... Trent Dilfer? Shaun King? I guess? :shrug:

Choose one:

Brett Favre or Trent Dilfer