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InChiefsHeaven 12-10-2012 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inmem58 (Post 9195991)
http://youtu.be/bsEbRzR2hfQ



Brady Quinn hits ref in the head lol. Sorry too lazy to embed.
ROFL That's almost as good as Matt's Hail Mary Doink off the crossbar a few years ago...wait...wasn't that against Cleveland too?

Rasputin 12-10-2012 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inmem58 (Post 9195991)
http://youtu.be/bsEbRzR2hfQ



Brady Quinn hits ref in the head lol. Sorry too lazy to embed.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bsEbRzR2hfQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bevischief 12-10-2012 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inmem58 (Post 9195991)
http://youtu.be/bsEbRzR2hfQ



Brady Quinn hits ref in the head lol. Sorry too lazy to embed.
I was wondering when someone was going to post this...

htismaqe 12-10-2012 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 9195258)
Locker, Ponder, Gabbert. They aren't doing very well either.
And the Jags will replace Gabbert in the draft.

They will have drafted TWO 1st-round QBs in ONE TENTH THE TIME WE'VE DRAFTED ONE.

notorious 12-10-2012 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196089)
And the Jags will replace Gabbert in the draft.

They will have drafted TWO 1st-round QBs in ONE TENTH THE TIME WE'VE DRAFTED ONE.
You see! It's too risky. The Jags have done what you guys are pining for and they are horrible. /truefan

htismaqe 12-10-2012 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9194830)
No way, another Cassel

Wanting Barkley is claiming you are a Casselite.
There's simply NO WAY you can objectively say that, at least not at this point.

Barkley started 4 YEARS at USC. Matt Cassel started 4 QUARTERS...

At a position OTHER THAN QB.

ndws 12-10-2012 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoneKrusher (Post 9193494)
it's a Mccluster ****
Fixed it for ya

TEX 12-10-2012 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 9196091)
You see! It's too risky. The Jags have done what you guys are pining for and they are horrible. /truefan
It's not as risky as it once was with the new collective bargaining agreement. In fact - there has never been a "safer" time to draft a BUST at # 1.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy (Post 9195495)
I'll be honest. I saw cousins tonight and was pissed we didn't draft him and I'd throw a 2nd round pick his way b/c he's better than gino or barkley
ROFL

Wait, lemme...well...

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

notorious 12-10-2012 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 9196091)
You see! It's too risky. The Jags have done what you guys are pining for and they are horrible. /truefan
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX (Post 9196109)
It's not as risky as it once was with the new collective bargaining agreement. In fact - there has never been a "safer" time to draft a BUST at # 1.
My sarcasm producer runs at 110% Monday morning.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9195856)
Cousins = Stanzi.

Stanzi = Cousins.

Get that through your tiny brains. He's a shitty Big 10 QB from a run first offense with a barely adequate pro arm.
Stanzi has a better arm. Period. Cousins is a little "safer" with his decision making.

Both of them are SEVERELY LIMITED in terms of NFL potential.

If Stanzi were in Washington, with MIKE SHANAHAN, he'd look like Cousins too.

The offense Stanzi ran in college is almost identical to Shanahan's. Zone blocking, cut the field in half, run the ball and playaction...

TEX 12-10-2012 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 9196113)
My sarcasm producer runs at 110% Monday morning.
Gotcha. Mine runs the other way, but I make up for it come mid week.

FlaChief58 12-10-2012 09:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX (Post 9196109)
It's not as risky as it once was with the new collective bargaining agreement. In fact - there has never been a "safer" time to draft a BUST at # 1.
This. I don't get why the talking heads can't grasp that. QB is this teams biggest (but not only)weakness by far and has to be addressed early in the draft. We may not get a once in a decade guy but we can get a very good one. If not, draft another one in 2 years

htismaqe 12-10-2012 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flachief58 (Post 9196125)
This. I don't get why the talking heads can't grasp that. QB is this teams biggest (but not only)weakness by far and has to be addressed early in the draft. We may not get a once in a decade guy but we can get a very good one. If not, draft another one in 2 years
Exactly.

That's the GREAT thing about how much the game revolves around the QB.

Picking the wrong QB doesn't get you mediocrity, it gets you another top 5 pick (see Jax).

If we take the wrong guy now, we'll be right back in this spot 2 years from now and can take someone else.

Keep trying until you get it right.

FAX 12-10-2012 09:21 AM
I'm beginning to lean toward an all-QB draft. We pick quarterbacks in every freaking round, let them battle it out for roster slots, and trade the ones who don't make the cut.

FAX

InChiefsHeaven 12-10-2012 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX (Post 9196159)
I'm beginning to lean toward an all-QB draft. We pick quarterbacks in every freaking round, let them battle it out for roster slots, and trade the ones who don't make the cut.

FAX
In all seriousness, I'd love it if we drafted like 3 QB's. Let em all fight it out. Can't do any worse...

mcaj22 12-10-2012 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 9193206)
The fact that people don't think we need a multi-year rebuild is baffling to me.
even if you get a QB in the first round we will still need to put talent around him. 1 good RB wont cut it and holy shit the defense has more holes now than when Pioli got here four years ago

MLB2
CB2
FS
DE
and
DE

not to mention CB depth, Safety depth, MLBer depth, and D-line depth. We need all of that. Because everything thats there now is dog trash and that is obvious

Chief Faithful 12-10-2012 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 9193846)
You want embarrassing?

Wait until April when we have a Top 3 pick and don't take a QB.
That sir, is my single greatest fear as a Chiefs fan.

The Franchise 12-10-2012 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196089)
And the Jags will replace Gabbert in the draft.

They will have drafted TWO 1st-round QBs in ONE TENTH THE TIME WE'VE DRAFTED ONE.
I'm wondering if the Jags don't try and go defense and grab a QB in the late 1st....early 2nd. Maybe wait for a Barkley slide and trade up to get him.

RealSNR 12-10-2012 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcaj22 (Post 9196345)
even if you get a QB in the first round we will still need to put talent around him. 1 good RB wont cut it and holy shit the defense has more holes now than when Pioli got here four years ago

MLB2
CB2
FS
DE
and
DE

not to mention CB depth, Safety depth, MLBer depth, and D-line depth. We need all of that. Because everything thats there now is dog trash and that is obvious
If the QB and HC picks go right, we won't necessarily need more than half of those things. We can acquire them along the way as "Hey, this thing would be nice to have on the team" kind of picks.

Again, see Indianapolis.

FlaChief58 12-10-2012 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9196443)
If the QB and HC picks go right, we won't necessarily need more than half of those things. We can acquire them along the way as "Hey, this thing would be nice to have on the team" kind of picks.

Again, see Indianapolis.
This

The right GM, HC & QB will go a LONG way towards fixing this mess

Molitoth 12-10-2012 11:20 AM
This Chiefs season has been the biggest waste of talent I've ever seen on a team... except for possibly my Detroit Lions...

1ChiefsDan 12-10-2012 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 9195076)
Yup.

I don't give a $#it about draft value or projected slotting.

When it comes to QB we need one. Get one...
How ****ing hard is it to understand this? JFC, the "draft value" is out the window with the new CBA when you need a QB (or other high impact player). :banghead:

GloryDayz 12-10-2012 11:43 AM
I'm sure they'd replace the fan-base too if they could.. Far too many of us are just mean people!

ROYC75 12-10-2012 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196104)
There's simply NO WAY you can objectively say that, at least not at this point.

Barkley started 4 YEARS at USC. Matt Cassel started 4 QUARTERS...

At a position OTHER THAN QB.
I do not want KC to have anything to do but face this guy. His arm is weak, ala Matt Cassel. I don't care if he was a red shirt 5th year player. Stay away from being a member of he Chiefs.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9196654)
I do not want KC to have anything to do but face this guy. His arm is weak, ala Matt Cassel. I don't care if he was a red shirt 5th year player. Stay away from being a member of he Chiefs.
If he's the best QB on the board when they pick, they should take him.

And if, in 2 years, he turns out to be like you think he is, then they should draft another QB.

Rain Man 12-10-2012 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196674)
If he's the best QB on the board when they pick, they should take him.

And if, in 2 years, he turns out to be like you think he is, then they should draft another QB.
This is the proper strategy in the modern NFL. Nothing else matters until you have a quarterback.

ROYC75 12-10-2012 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196674)
If he's the best QB on the board when they pick, they should take him.

And if, in 2 years, he turns out to be like you think he is, then they should draft another QB.
Tyler Bray has more upside in talent than Barkley. The problem with Bray is the maturity level and rather he can comprehend the NFL playbook.

We get 1 or 2, they better not use it on Barkley. Smith or Wilson is the only logical choice.

God forbid we end up at 3, As much as we need QB, I'm almost inclined to go elsewhere if Smith & Wilson are gone, take Bray top of the 2nd.

Smith 1 and Bray in the 2nd is intriguing. Fill in the gaps with the draft & FA with a new ( good staff ) administration and we are on to something.

ct 12-10-2012 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 9193245)
For some reason I am just pissed about this loss. It's not that we lost but it's things like,

Breaston on the bench and we have no WR worth a ****
An OC that refuses to pass the ball regardless
The TO at the end of the half to only runa ****ing draw play

it's just the level of stupidity
We've been running hopeless draws all year to our 3rd down back, UDFA Shaun friggin Draughn. I know Jamaal can't survive 30 carries every week, but he sure as hell should be in on 90% of 3rd down passing situations.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9196718)
Tyler Bray has more upside in talent than Barkley. The problem with Bray is the maturity level and rather he can comprehend the NFL playbook.

We get 1 or 2, they better not use it on Barkley. Smith or Wilson is the only logical choice.

God forbid we end up at 3, As much as we need QB, I'm almost inclined to go elsewhere if Smith & Wilson are gone, take Bray top of the 2nd.

Smith 1 and Bray in the 2nd is intriguing. Fill in the gaps with the draft & FA with a new ( good staff ) administration and we are on to something.
If Bray is the best QB available, pick him.

ct 12-10-2012 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9196718)
Tyler Bray has more upside in talent than Barkley. The problem with Bray is the maturity level and rather he can comprehend the NFL playbook.

We get 1 or 2, they better not use it on Barkley. Smith or Wilson is the only logical choice.

God forbid we end up at 3, As much as we need QB, I'm almost inclined to go elsewhere if Smith & Wilson are gone, take Bray top of the 2nd.

Smith 1 and Bray in the 2nd is intriguing. Fill in the gaps with the draft & FA with a new ( good staff ) administration and we are on to something.
this
and that

ROYC75 12-10-2012 01:22 PM
Guys, Matt Barkley is NOT going to be the best QB at 1 or 2 in the draft, NO WAY NO HOW !. No noodle arm QB is worth a 1 or 2 pick. If he smart as all get out, maybe in a WC offense or a version of a dink and dunk offense, OK. But damn he has to be accurate as hell, of which the times I've seen him, he wasn't.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9196751)
Guys, Matt Barkley is NOT going to be the best QB at 1 or 2 in the draft, NO WAY NO HOW !. No noodle arm QB is worth a 1 or 2 pick. If he smart as all get out, maybe in a WC offense or a version of a dink and dunk offense, OK. But damn he has to be accurate as hell, of which the times I've seen him, he wasn't.
What if we're picking 3rd?

Chief Roundup 12-10-2012 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196089)
And the Jags will replace Gabbert in the draft.

They will have drafted TWO 1st-round QBs in ONE TENTH THE TIME WE'VE DRAFTED ONE.
Yeah oh boy. Lets knowingly throw away our top pick on a QB that won't get the job done. I would rather throw away a FA signing and let him suck than totally waste a draft pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196104)
There's simply NO WAY you can objectively say that, at least not at this point.

Barkley started 4 YEARS at USC. Matt Cassel started 4 QUARTERS...

At a position OTHER THAN QB.
Barkley is undersized, has a weak arm, played in a weak conference, had more talent around him than any other QB in this draft and he still couldn't lead that team anywhere and his stock is currently falling like a rock. Matt Barkley is not a good prospect at all.

Chief Roundup 12-10-2012 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196796)
What if we're picking 3rd?
If we can we have to trade up or hope that Wilson or Smith falls to us. If none of those options pan out then we should trade back or take another position and then take which ever one of the next level QBs that they have evaluated as a player that they would also like or want. Whether that is at the top of the 2cd or trading back up into the first.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 9196863)
Barkley is undersized, has a weak arm, played in a weak conference, had more talent around him than any other QB in this draft and he still couldn't lead that team anywhere and his stock is currently falling like a rock. Matt Barkley is not a good prospect at all.
And he's still not Matt Cassel.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 9196869)
If we can we have to trade up or hope that Wilson or Smith falls to us. If none of those options pan out then we should trade back or take another position and then take which ever one of the next level QBs that they have evaluated as a player that they would also like or want. Whether that is at the top of the 2cd or trading back up into the first.
Yeah, let's **** around and end up getting NOTHING at the QB position.

Just draft a ****ing QB first and let the chips fall where they may.

DaneMcCloud 12-10-2012 02:20 PM
I officially just don't care anymore.

For the first time since Herm was the coach, I bailed in the early 4th quarter to run errands and other stuff. The Chiefs were down 27-7 and I knew it was over. I just didn't care to watch the end.

It sucks to give up on a team in early December but we all know what's going to happen. It's sad, really. I'm more excited about tonight's Texans-Pats game than I was for the Chiefs and it's pretty much been like this since September.

I know changes are coming but it's going to be difficult to get me excited about 2013, whether Pioli, Crennel and the entire staff is gone or not.

This franchise is like a Vampire. It never stops sucking.

RealSNR 12-10-2012 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196894)
Yeah, let's **** around and end up getting NOTHING at the QB position.

Just draft a ****ing QB first and let the chips fall where they may.
A lot of people want us to suck at the right time for a QB. Well guess what? There's no better way to ensure that than by drafting a QB.

QB is good = position fixed
QB sucks = team sucks, which = the perfect chance to draft that magical pro guy people want so bad

htismaqe 12-10-2012 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9196904)
A lot of people want us to suck at the right time for a QB. Well guess what? There's no better way to ensure that than by drafting a QB.

QB is good = position fixed
QB sucks = team sucks, which = the perfect chance to draft that magical pro guy people want so bad
Exactly.

Hey man, I know Cindy Crawford just asked me if I wanted to **** but damn, she's old, and who knows, maybe Katy Perry will walk by in 30 minutes and ask me. If I go **** Cindy Crawford, I won't be here when Katy Perry walks by. What am I going to do?!?!?!

Calcountry 12-10-2012 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 (Post 9193179)
When you lose the way we did against Cleveland you suddenly find yourself staring at 2-11 and being embarrassed would be an improvement. Today we saw in a nutshell the complete and utter stupidity that Pioli has spent the better part of 4 years putting together.

We bitched about this team early in the season, gave up on them mid-way and now actually root for a loss in hopes for a good draft spot. Unfortunately a new QB, regardless of who it is or how high he is drafted, is not going to help this sorry ass compilation of fail and suck.

Think about the mess Pioli has created in just under 4 years that we now have to clean up in a hurry, somehow.

1. No QB's
2. No WR's...Bowe will walk leaving us with nothing worth a ****
3. No LT, I expect Albert to walk from this abortion
4. No DE's, Dorsey will walk and TJ still sucks
5. No punter..Colquitt can walk this year
6. No secondary, save flowers
7. 1 RB worth a shit
8. No Center worth a ****
9. No HC worth a ****
10. No OC worth a ****
11. No DC worth a ****
12. No ST coach worth a ****
13. No kicker worth a ****

So as I see it, we need at least 2 QB's, 2 WR's, a center, 2 DE's, 2 CB's, 1-2 Safetys, a HC, an OC, a DC, a ST coach, a kicker, a punter and of course a new GM

/rant off
LMAO Vote for Obama, he will fix everything.

RealSNR 12-10-2012 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196945)
Exactly.

Hey man, I know Cindy Crawford just asked me if I wanted to **** but damn, she's old, and who knows, maybe Katy Perry will walk by in 30 minutes and ask me. If I go **** Cindy Crawford, I won't be here when Katy Perry walks by. What am I going to do?!?!?!
If Cindy Crawford will **** you, I think you should ask Meg Ryan if she'll **** you AND let you chill at her place for the weekend. Gotta **** the right celebrity for the right price, y'know. Old Meg Ryan isn't that much worse than old Cindy Crawford, after all

TLO 12-10-2012 03:08 PM
Pete sucks.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196945)
Exactly.

Hey man, I know Cindy Crawford just asked me if I wanted to **** but damn, she's old, and who knows, maybe Katy Perry will walk by in 30 minutes and ask me. If I go **** Cindy Crawford, I won't be here when Katy Perry walks by. What am I going to do?!?!?!
Then you get to her place, and Dennis Rodman pulls off his Cindy Crawford mask and pisspounds your anus.

You say 'oh well, can't say I didn't try, back to the mean streets hoping the next thing to walk by works out a little better.'

htismaqe 12-10-2012 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197079)
Then you get to her place, and Dennis Rodman pulls off his Cindy Crawford mask and pisspounds your anus.

You say 'oh well, can't say I didn't try, back to the mean streets hoping the next thing to walk by works out a little better.'
At least you got a story you can tell your kids...

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197099)
At least you got a story you can tell your kids...
I pondered tacking those exact words on the end [pronouns excepted], but figured a succinct point is a superior point.

RealSNR 12-10-2012 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197079)
Then you get to her place, and Dennis Rodman pulls off his Cindy Crawford mask and pisspounds your anus.

You say 'oh well, can't say I didn't try, back to the mean streets hoping the next thing to walk by works out a little better.'
That accurately describes the Chiefs' tryout with Scott Pioli.

However, the worst that happens with a QB is that old Cindy Crawford decides she doesn't actually want to have sex and has her doorman show you the way out. I can't think of any horrific scenarios that will set the team back years if the QB busts.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197108)
That accurately describes the Chiefs' tryout with Scott Pioli.

However, the worst that happens with a QB is that old Cindy Crawford decides she doesn't actually want to have sex and has her doorman show you the way out. I can't think of any horrific scenarios that will set the team back years if the QB busts.
QB busts, particularly high draft position ones, take years to determine.

A QB bust is the sine qua non of setting the team back years.

And I'm not saying 'don't draft a QB,' I'm saying 'take whatever QB is there for the taking because you really need one and he appears to be one' is reeruned.

EDIT: and htis, I can't see any way for you to disagree with this given your stance on Cousins.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197114)
QB busts, particularly high draft position ones, take years to determine.

A QB bust is the sine qua non of setting the team back years.

And I'm not saying 'don't draft a QB,' I'm saying 'take whatever QB is there for the taking because you really need one and he appears to be one' is reeruned.
That's no longer true with the current CBA.

No drafting, at any position, will set a team back "years".

RealSNR 12-10-2012 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197114)
QB busts, particularly high draft position ones, take years to determine.

A QB bust is the sine qua non of setting the team back years.

And I'm not saying 'don't draft a QB,' I'm saying 'take whatever QB is there for the taking because you really need one and he appears to be one' is reeruned.

EDIT: and htis, I can't see any way for you to disagree with this given your stance on Cousins.
Why do busted QBs set a team back so much as opposed to busted 5-tech defensive linemen? In both cases, the draft pick has been pissed away.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197124)
That's no longer true with the current CBA.

No drafting, at any position, will set a team back "years".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197138)
Why do busted QBs set a team back so much as opposed to busted 5-tech defensive linemen? In both cases, the draft pick has been pissed away.
It's not a $$ thing, and it's not an 'all busts are the same' thing.

It's a 'trust us, he's showing great things in practice, great strides are just around the corner' PR QBOTF sells tickets thing.

But please, tell us a story about a highly drafted QB who 1) busted, 2) didn't get a career ending injury to shorten his stay, 3) was named the team's starter, and 4) the realization of bust-ness took less than years.

DeezNutz 12-10-2012 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197138)
Why do busted QBs set a team back so much as opposed to busted 5-tech defensive linemen? In both cases, the draft pick has been pissed away.
Longer-leash theory. But, as Carolina demonstrated (yeah, yeah, second-rounder), teams go back to the well more quickly in today's game.

Three years isn't necessarily a given for any QB, no matter the draft position.

DeezNutz 12-10-2012 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197257)
It's not a $$ thing, and it's not an 'all busts are the same' thing.

It's a 'trust us, he's showing great things in practice, great strides are just around the corner' PR QBOTF sells tickets thing.

But please, tell us a story about a highly drafted QB who 1) busted, 2) didn't get a career ending injury to shorten his stay, 3) was named the team's starter, and 4) the realization of bust-ness took less than years.
Caroline. Imperfect example because Clausen was a second-rounder.
Perhaps JAX this year. Looks very possible.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197257)
It's not a $$ thing, and it's not an 'all busts are the same' thing.

It's a 'trust us, he's showing great things in practice, great strides are just around the corner' PR QBOTF sells tickets thing.

But please, tell us a story about a highly drafted QB who 1) busted, 2) didn't get a career ending injury to shorten his stay, 3) was named the team's starter, and 4) the realization of bust-ness took less than years.
Jamarcus Russell.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9197258)
Longer-leash theory. But, as Carolina demonstrated (yeah, yeah, second-rounder), teams go back to the well more quickly in today's game.

Three years isn't necessarily a given for any QB, no matter the draft position.
That wasn't nearly as much a 'we thought Clausen was our future but he clearly isn't now' thing, as it was a 'we get the 1 pick and Cam Newton's there, no brainer' thing.

I don't care if the Chiefs had Aaron Rodgers at QB, if they had the opportunity to draft Luck or RGIII, they better take him/

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197268)
Jamarcus Russell.
1. It's the Raiders, they're reeruned.
2. He was their starter for 2 full years, and the end of his first.
3. I'd count Purple Drank as a career ending injury.
4. Overall, his selection has set them back more than the duration of him starting, including the desperation driven Palmer trade that did them no favors.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:36 PM
Let's just pass on a QB then. Heaven forbid that a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 2 decades and that is nearing in on two 2-win seasons and two 4-win seasons in 6 years "set themselves back".

RealSNR 12-10-2012 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197257)
It's not a $$ thing, and it's not an 'all busts are the same' thing.

It's a 'trust us, he's showing great things in practice, great strides are just around the corner' PR QBOTF sells tickets thing.

But please, tell us a story about a highly drafted QB who 1) busted, 2) didn't get a career ending injury to shorten his stay, 3) was named the team's starter, and 4) the realization of bust-ness took less than years.
A good bet is Blaine Gabbert. Possibly even Brandon Weeden.

Brady Quinn only took two seasons to bust out. Same with Tim Tebow.

Going back a long time, there's also Cade McNown and Akili Smith, both of whom only got to play for a single season.

|Zach| 12-10-2012 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197310)
Let's just pass on a QB then. Heaven forbid that a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 2 decades and that is nearing in on two 2-win seasons and two 4-win seasons in 6 years "set themselves back".
If you are bent out of shape about it then just move on...

right?

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Zach| (Post 9197316)
If you are bent out of shape about it then just move on...

right?
I'm not bent out of shape about anything.

If they pass on a QB in April, I will move on. That's a promise.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197114)
QB busts, particularly high draft position ones, take years to determine.

A QB bust is the sine qua non of setting the team back years.

And I'm not saying 'don't draft a QB,' I'm saying 'take whatever QB is there for the taking because you really need one and he appears to be one' is reeruned.

EDIT: and htis, I can't see any way for you to disagree with this given your stance on Cousins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197310)
Let's just pass on a QB then. Heaven forbid that a franchise that hasn't won a playoff game in 2 decades and that is nearing in on two 2-win seasons and two 4-win seasons in 6 years "set themselves back".
OIC, you can't read. It's OK, buck up li'l buddy.

Hypothetical for the sake of curiosity about consistency. If Kirk Cousins was the best QB in the upcoming draft when the Chiefs are on the clock, do you want the Chiefs to take him?

RealSNR 12-10-2012 04:43 PM
Also, if the risk involved in picking just any ol' QB with a high draft pick boils down to "the team is forced to live with his mistakes for too long," then I don't know what to tell you. Teams need QBs. If they don't draft a guy, then they go the Chiefs route of trading for backups.

Elvis Grbacs, Rich Gannons, and Matt Cassels aren't any safer than rolling the dice on risky QBs in the first round. When they bust, they still require the franchise to give the company line, "Just be patient." The only difference is that when they succeed, they succeed as bullshit game managers, and when they fail they fail just as hard and fast as the QBs that fail spectacularly.

So does it come down to the pricetag, Baby Lee? If you're going to hang yourself, you shouldn't pay too much?

RealSNR 12-10-2012 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197322)
OIC, you can't read. It's OK, buck up li'l buddy.

Hypothetical for the sake of curiosity about consistency. If Kirk Cousins was the best QB in the upcoming draft when the Chiefs are on the clock, do you want the Chiefs to take him?
Yes. I've said that many times. So has htismaqe.

I can't ever recall a QB draft that ****ing horrific, but whatever.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197339)
Yes. I've said that many times. So has htismaqe.

I can't ever recall a QB draft that ****ing horrific, but whatever.
Bullshit, htis has said JUST TODAY that Cousins isn't worth later round picks. How the **** can the same person say 'if he's there at #1, 2, 3 overall in the draft and he's the best QB available take him' AND 'he's not worth trading away a 2nd 3rd or 4th round pick because I already know he's worthless and always will be?'

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197322)
OIC, you can't read. It's OK, buck up li'l buddy.

Hypothetical for the sake of curiosity about consistency. If Kirk Cousins was the best QB in the upcoming draft when the Chiefs are on the clock, do you want the Chiefs to take him?
Since your hypothetical is impossible, it doesn't require an answer. A player with Kirk Cousins' skill set would never be a first-round pick, let alone a top 5 pick.

See, we're not picking 11. We'll be picking in the top 3. That's where you get your QB.

So take Smith, or Wilson, or Barkley and get it done.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197350)
Bullshit, htis has said JUST TODAY that Cousins isn't worth later round picks. How the **** can the same person say 'if he's there at #1, 2, 3 overall in the draft and he's the best QB available take him' AND 'he's not worth trading away a 2nd 3rd or 4th round pick because I already know he's worthless and always will be?'
So basically you're saying that your hypothetical scenario involves Kirk Cousins being the BEST QB available, despite having a 4th-round skillset.

Again, your hypothetical is BS baiting and nothing more. Your hypothetical scenario would never happen in the REAL WORLD.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197335)
Also, if the risk involved in picking just any ol' QB with a high draft pick boils down to "the team is forced to live with his mistakes for too long," then I don't know what to tell you. Teams need QBs. If they don't draft a guy, then they go the Chiefs route of trading for backups.

Elvis Grbacs, Rich Gannons, and Matt Cassels aren't any safer than rolling the dice on risky QBs in the first round. When they bust, they still require the franchise to give the company line, "Just be patient." The only difference is that when they succeed, they succeed as bullshit game managers, and when they fail they fail just as hard and fast as the QBs that fail spectacularly.

So does it come down to the pricetag, Baby Lee? If you're going to hang yourself, you shouldn't pay too much?
If the situation is as dire as ours, you don't settle for a Gannon or Cassel either. If the talent isn't there in the draft class you find the way to trade for the Montanas, Youngs and Mannings out there.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197368)
If the situation is as dire as ours, you don't settle for a Gannon or Cassel either. If the talent isn't there in the draft class you find the way to trade for the Montanas, Youngs and Mannings out there.
The talent is there in this draft class.

Something tells me that it is this little tidbit that has created this HUGE difference in thinking between SNR, myself, and you.

DeezNutz 12-10-2012 04:56 PM
If Smith is gone, there will be Wilson. If both are gone, there will be Barkley. All are legitimate first-round talents.

htismaqe 12-10-2012 04:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9197392)
If Smith is gone, there will be Wilson. If both are gone, there will be Barkley. All are legitimate first-round talents.
Exactly.

ROYC75 12-10-2012 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 9197392)
If Smith is gone, there will be Wilson. If both are gone, there will be Barkley. All are legitimate first-round talents.
If Smith and Wilson is gone at 1 & 2 and we are at 3 and you think Barkley is the 3rd best QB in the draft, yet he isn't the best fit for this team , you let that sucker go by. Take BPA, find some other team that has a sloberfest hard on for a weak armed QB and acquire another 1 or a 2, package something together somewhere somehow to get a quality BPA at a 1 and take Bray at the other 1 to complete your draft. You then have your 2 to grab another player unless you had to use him in your package to get 2 - #1high enough to get your QB and BPA.

This team has man needs but to settle for a guy like Barkley that doesn't fit our plans of stretching the field is assine. We have that in Cassel now, at least Quinn or Stanzi can throw it deep to keep the corners and safeties from crowding the line.

Sure the CBA has cut the risk of selecting a QB high now, but would you still want Barkley if the CBA wasn't the way it is now ?

htismaqe 12-10-2012 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYC75 (Post 9197506)
This team has man needs but to settle for a guy like Barkley that doesn't fit our plans of stretching the field is assine. We have that in Cassel now, at least Quinn or Stanzi can throw it deep to keep the corners and safeties from crowding the line.
This team has a plan to stretch the field?

Do you know who the next coach is already?

ROYC75 12-10-2012 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197520)
This team has a plan to stretch the field?

Do you know who the next coach is already?
Copycat league, if we are not we must be on the leading edge to bring the WC offense back.;)

Barkley's only chance to succeed in the NFL is with a team planning more ball control or a WC offense.

RealSNR 12-10-2012 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9197368)
If the situation is as dire as ours, you don't settle for a Gannon or Cassel either. If the talent isn't there in the draft class you find the way to trade for the Montanas, Youngs and Mannings out there.
If Smith, Wilson, and Barkley truly are 2nd round talents (which they aren't) and not worth the Chiefs' time, then we're stuck going a different route: trading for Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez or trying to sign Joe Flacco away from the Ravens.

Or we keep what we have and draft another slapdick Ricky Stanzi/Kirk Cousins clone to ride the bench under futile QB leadership.

All in the name of "draft value." And not setting the franchise back.

What's the appropriate solution?

Guitarkore 12-10-2012 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower (Post 9193206)
The fact that people don't think we need a multi-year rebuild is baffling to me.
This...

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197867)
If Smith, Wilson, and Barkley truly are 2nd round talents (which they aren't) and not worth the Chiefs' time, then we're stuck going a different route: trading for Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez or trying to sign Joe Flacco away from the Ravens.

Or we keep what we have and draft another slapdick Ricky Stanzi/Kirk Cousins clone to ride the bench under futile QB leadership.

All in the name of "draft value." And not setting the franchise back.

What's the appropriate solution?
Goalposts movin' all over up in here.

There's a gulf of difference between;

'get the QB as soon as you can because we need one and if it's not the right guy we can throw him in the gutter and go buy another'

and

'these 3 guys are each certified 1st round material, and drafting them is a near lock, but even if he doesn't live up to certified status you have to try.'

A GULF.

RealSNR 12-10-2012 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9198066)
Goalposts movin' all over up in here.

There's a gulf of difference between;

'get the QB as soon as you can because we need one and if it's not the right guy we can throw him in the gutter and go buy another'

and

'these 3 guys are each certified 1st round material, and drafting them is a near lock, but even if he doesn't live up to certified status you have to try.'

A GULF.
Hey, I just figured that if you can use ridiculous hypotheticals that have no bearing on the argument, then I can move the goalposts a few inches.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9196894)
Yeah, let's **** around and end up getting NOTHING at the QB position.

Just draft a ****ing QB first and let the chips fall where they may.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197108)
That accurately describes the Chiefs' tryout with Scott Pioli.

However, the worst that happens with a QB is that old Cindy Crawford decides she doesn't actually want to have sex and has her doorman show you the way out. I can't think of any horrific scenarios that will set the team back years if the QB busts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 9197124)
That's no longer true with the current CBA.

No drafting, at any position, will set a team back "years".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9197138)
Why do busted QBs set a team back so much as opposed to busted 5-tech defensive linemen? In both cases, the draft pick has been pissed away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9198157)
Hey, I just figured that if you can use ridiculous hypotheticals that have no bearing on the argument, then I can move the goalposts a few inches.
Compared to your and htis' ridiculous stances before I started the work of drawing some substance out of you. That of;

'just draft someone, anyone, at QB ASAP, regardless of value or prospects for success. Could fail, but then you just wash, rinse, repeat.'

Do you guys really pay this little attention to what you post.

htis was NEARLY SIMULTANEOUSLY posting 'I guarantee Cousins is a waste of a later round draft pick. He'll never be a success.' AND 'just draft a QB [no mention of qualification or value] already. We need one, one's available, BOOM, tough actin' Tenactin.'

RealSNR 12-10-2012 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee (Post 9198190)
Compared to your and htis' ridiculous stances before I started the work of drawing some substance out of you. That of;

'just draft someone, anyone, at QB ASAP, regardless of value or prospects for success. Could fail, but then you just wash, rinse, repeat.'
God, you're such a ****ing lawyer LMAO

You're the one who preached caution with this QB class when there's really nothing to be all that cautious about more than most years. This is an above average class of QBs, and you said settling for this group is like getting surprise raped by Dennis Rodman. That's the first thing you said that was more obtuse than my "draft a QB if you don't have one" argument

The second one was when you tried to pawn off the ol' "Okay, you hate Kirk Cousins so much, so would you just draft him if he's the only QB available?" There has NEVER been a class of QBs that god awful in the modern era of the NFL, and if it were possible I'd probably bet a hefty chunk of money that there never will be. I always said that if you need a QB, then go get one. And if you're as desperate as the Chiefs and don't want to trade for a retread (we don't) then the QBs only get worse the further down the draft you go. That's what I've been saying this year, that's what I said in that abortion QB class of 2010, and that's what I would say to your nonexistent Kirk Cousins draft.

You're pretty crafty with your logic, but if you keep bouncing all over the goddamn place, you'll eventually trip on your own dick.

Baby Lee 12-10-2012 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 9198238)
God, you're such a ****ing lawyer LMAO

You're the one who preached caution with this QB class when there's really nothing to be all that cautious about more than most years. This is an above average class of QBs, and you said settling for this group is like getting surprise raped by Dennis Rodman. That's the first thing you said that was more obtuse than my "draft a QB if you don't have one" argument

The second one was when you tried to pawn off the ol' "Okay, you hate Kirk Cousins so much, so would you just draft him if he's the only QB available?" There has NEVER been a class of QBs that god awful in the modern era of the NFL, and if it were possible I'd probably bet a hefty chunk of money that there never will be. I always said that if you need a QB, then go get one. And if you're as desperate as the Chiefs and don't want to trade for a retread (we don't) then the QBs only get worse the further down the draft you go. That's what I've been saying this year, that's what I said in that abortion QB class of 2010, and that's what I would say to your nonexistent Kirk Cousins draft.

You're pretty crafty with your logic, but if you keep bouncing all over the goddamn place, you'll eventually trip on your own dick.
1. I've heard 'such a ****ing lawyer' on here a bajillion times, one for each time the true underlying response was 'OK, I see what you're saying, good point.'

2. You and htis' being vague with the 'draft a QB already' with absolutely no mention of value or qualification wasn't my doing. I may still have a semi-functional sarcasmeter, I don't know if a 'there's a ton of assumed qualifications to my blanket hyperbolic statements you should already know'-meter has even been invented.

3. My hypothetical of a draft where Cousins was the best QB available, even early on in the draft, might be unrealistic, but it is completely defensible when someone is NEARLY SIMULTANEOUSLY stating 'draft QB, any QB, already' and 'Cousins is a guaranteed failure regardless of draft position' as Cousins, regardless of future prospects, undeniably falls under the umbrella of 'any QB.'

4. Stepping on one's dick is a pain, one that those few fortunate whose dicks reach the ground must bear.


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