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-   -   Computers Windows 8 (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=265863)

DaFace 12-28-2013 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10314845)
Windows 8 is by far my least favorite desktop/laptop OS. It's like the Windows 8 developers at Microsoft were determined to make it as difficult as possible to perform the functions that you easily perform in Windows 7. The only way to make it usable is to add a third-party start menu such as Start8 or Classic Shell. I personally use Classic Shell, but I think the two add-ons are pretty much identical. What they do is give you a way to get to the old Start Menu that has been around ever since Windows 95. It turns the monstrosity known as Windows 8 into an OS that is once again perfectly usable.
Yeah, for the record, I only pitch Start8 because it's what I've used and have liked. From what I understand, Classic Shell does basically the same thing.

Just in case people run across this thread, here's a decent review of the two:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...ssic_shell2013

DaFace 12-28-2013 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free (Post 10314952)
All I can say is... I. Hate. It.

As soon as i can, i'm having 7 installed... 8 has so many connectivity problems with websites i always use, constantly.

Sports Illustrated, ESPN, Fox Sports, Fox News, CNN, Google Chrome almost never works, just to name a few... they constantly barely work or don't work at all some days, never ever had this problem with any other version.
That sounds more like a browser/router issue than an OS issue. I've not had any web problems like what you're talking about at all.

007 12-28-2013 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10314985)
That sounds more like a browser/router issue than an OS issue. I've not had any web problems like what you're talking about at all.
AGreed, when I had Win8 I never had connectivity issues on my PC<

Anyong Bluth 12-28-2013 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10314985)
That sounds more like a browser/router issue than an OS issue. I've not had any web problems like what you're talking about at all.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru (Post 10315022)
AGreed, when I had Win8 I never had connectivity issues on my PC<
Yep- never had a single issue like that unless it was Internet / router problems.

Lex Luthor 12-29-2013 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish (Post 10314886)
FYI... not sure if you've tried it....

You can do light editing of Office files on your iPad using Microsoft's Office web apps. For free. It's missing some of the really advanced editing features. But for simple stuff it works well.

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/web-apps/
Thanks. I agree it's fine for simple stuff.

-King- 12-30-2013 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief (Post 10314750)
I just got a new Windows laptop for the wife. I heard about the issues but thought it was just users complaining about change. But, no start button? No program files? WTF? Thats some arrogant engineering.
I guess I just don't get the start button issue.

When you go into metro, just type the name of the program you want to run.

And there are program files.

DaFace 12-30-2013 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10321343)
I guess I just don't get the start button issue.

When you go into metro, just type the name of the program you want to run.

And there are program files.
Before:
1. Click start menu.
2. Click program you want.
3. Success!

Now:
1. Click start menu
2. Peruse the disorganized collection of tiles all over the place
3. Give up looking and click into the box to search for what you're looking for
4. Type the name of the program you're looking for
5. Half-hearted success


It's not a matter of it being completely non-functional. It's a matter of it being considerably less efficient than the old system.

-King- 12-30-2013 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10321396)
Before:
1. Click start menu.
2. Click program you want.
3. Success!

Now:
1. Click start menu
2. Peruse the disorganized collection of tiles all over the place
3. Give up looking and click into the box to search for what you're looking for
4. Type the name of the program you're looking for
5. Half-hearted success


It's not a matter of it being completely non-functional. It's a matter of it being considerably less efficient than the old system.
Or you could skip steps 2 and 3 and be more efficient.

Lex Luthor 12-30-2013 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10321407)
Or you could skip steps 2 and 3 and be more efficient.
Great idea. Here's an even better one: Let's just get rid of the whole Windows GUI and go back to a command line interface.

If you don't understand why people miss the Start Menu, you never understood the Start Menu.

-King- 12-30-2013 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10322284)
Great idea. Here's an even better one: Let's just get rid of the whole Windows GUI and go back to a command line interface.

If you don't understand why people miss the Start Menu, you never understood the Start Menu.
Ok, tell me how my idea is any less efficient than using a start menu.

-King- 12-30-2013 04:21 PM
1) Click metro button/press Windows button
2) Type in the first 1 or 2 letters of program you want
3) Click program

That's more efficient than looking through any start menu.

007 12-31-2013 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10322405)
1) Click metro button/press Windows button
2) Type in the first 1 or 2 letters of program you want
3) Click program

That's more efficient than looking through any start menu.
Because people don't want to type. :shrug:

Lex Luthor 12-31-2013 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10322405)
1) Click metro button/press Windows button
2) Type in the first 1 or 2 letters of program you want
3) Click program

That's more efficient than looking through any start menu.
Your method requires you to click on a poor replacement for the old Start button in order to bring up a tiled list of programs where each tile takes up WAY too much screen space and the list is randomly organized. You are forced to either swipe the screen (potentially several times) in order to find what you want, or you are forced to invoke the search function, bring up the virtual keyboard, and begin typing the first couple of letters of the name of the program you want.

The Windows Start menu has all of your apps organized in alphabetical order, gives you the option to pin commonly used apps to a prominent position at the top, provides you with an easy way to find links to things such as the Control Panel, Printers, your documents, pictures, music, and a Help panel. Plus, it's a scrollable list that takes up less than a third of your screen real estate. The Metro interface was simply a lame attempt by Microsoft to make their interface mimic the interface used by the iPhone and iPad.

If you truly believe your method of finding an app is better and more efficient that the Start Menu that was introduced in Windows 95 and has been tweaked and improved in every iteration of Windows prior to Windows 8, then I'm not going to waste my time debating this issue with you. It's utterly hopeless and will just wind up frustrating me and everybody else who reads this thread.

The fact is that the vast majority of Windows users agree with me and disagree with you. That's why Microsoft is going to restore the actual Start menu in Windows 8.2. If you prefer to use your method, more power to you. Just don't continue to plead ignorance.

kaplin42 12-31-2013 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10314845)
I have really tried to embrace Windows 8 running on a tablet. I really have. The problem is that Windows 8 just plain sucks.

Windows 8 is by far my least favorite desktop/laptop OS. It's like the Windows 8 developers at Microsoft were determined to make it as difficult as possible to perform the functions that you easily perform in Windows 7. The only way to make it usable is to add a third-party start menu such as Start8 or Classic Shell. I personally use Classic Shell, but I think the two add-ons are pretty much identical. What they do is give you a way to get to the old Start Menu that has been around ever since Windows 95. It turns the monstrosity known as Windows 8 into an OS that is once again perfectly usable.

I hope Microsoft really does return the old Start Menu with Windows 8.2, as is rumored. The "start button" that they added with Windows 8.1 is a freaking joke. I suspect some arrogant asshole at Microsoft said "So, you're pissed that we took away the Start button? Fine, I'll give you a Start button. It will take you to the Metro GUI that you hate so much. So there!". The "Start Button" in Windows 8.1 is completely useless.

Windows 8 is also by far my least favorite tablet OS. The "touch" function works, but it's damn hard to hit what you're trying to touch on the first attempt. On an iPad you can easily pinch and zoom the screen so that you CAN actually touch a hyperlink on the first attempt. On my Windows 8 tablets sometimes I can pinch and zoom, and sometimes I can't.

In my opinion the iPad is still by far the best tablet available. I'm no Apple fanboy, as I don't have any machine that runs Mac OS X. I do have 2 desktops and 2 laptops running Windows 7, two Windows 8 tablets, an Pad, an iPhone, and a Samsung tablet running the Android OS. I also have a laptop running Linux Mint KDE, and a desktop running Ubuntu Linux 12.04. I think I've had a pretty good exposure to a lot of different operating systems.

The iPad interface is simply a lot more intuitive than the Windows 8 interface, and it's not even close. The Android OS is a hell of a lot more intuitive than the Windows 8 interface as well.

Now, if you absolutely must have Microsoft Office on your tablet, then you have no choice: you really do need a Windows 8 tablet. You also really need a mouse. I've resorted to carrying around a mouse whenever I carry my Windows 8 tablet into a meeting, because it's just so damn hard to navigate Windows 8 without it. But when I don't need Microsoft Office, I leave the ****ing Windows 8 tablet at my desk and carry an iPad into the meeting instead. An iPad is much better at taking meeting notes, reading email, checking your online calendar, and surfing the Internet. The ONLY time I'll every carry a Windows 8 tablet into a meeting is if I need to edit an Excel spreadsheet in the meeting.

Sadly, however, Windows 8 is here to stay, and we all might as well learn to love it.
It's funny, because I have been using 8 for about a year, and 8.1 since release on a desktop, Surface RT and a Surface Pro 2. And I see none of the issues that you vaguely complain about. The only issue, and this is a hardware design is that the SP2 is meant for a stylus, and not so much for your finger, if you use a stylus, clicking links and what not is really easy.

8 runs fast and smooth for me, even on my desktop, the metro doesn't bother me, especially after 8.1. I cleared off all the apps that I don't like, put up a few that I do, and then normally I just type in what I want and then hit enter like I did in Windows 7 on the start menu.

I will give Apple that their app store is light years ahead of M$'s, but as far as real tablets go, the SP2 is pretty fricking awesome, and destroys the iPad in every way that I can think of that actually matters.

kaplin42 12-31-2013 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10321396)
Before:
1. Click start menu.
2. Click program you want.
3. Success!

Now:
1. Click start menu
2. Peruse the disorganized collection of tiles all over the place
3. Give up looking and click into the box to search for what you're looking for
4. Type the name of the program you're looking for
5. Half-hearted success


It's not a matter of it being completely non-functional. It's a matter of it being considerably less efficient than the old system.
Be at Metro
Type program name Word
Push Enter
????
Profit

Donger 12-31-2013 02:02 PM
Okay, I've ****ing had it with this POS...

Just got a voicemail in .wav format. Clicked on it to play and some program played it, but...

HOW THE **** DO YOU CLOSE WHATEVER PROGRAM THIS IS!!!?

kaplin42 12-31-2013 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10324452)
Okay, I've ****ing had it with this POS...

Just got a voicemail in .wav format. Clicked on it to play and some program played it, but...

HOW THE **** DO YOU CLOSE WHATEVER PROGRAM THIS IS!!!?
The point is, your not supposed to. It works like iOS, you move on to the next program and leave the old one running. If an app is not the focus, then it doesn't take up any processing cycles, it just sits in the background waiting for you to use it again.

If you really want to close it though, then try CTRL+Shift+ESC and end the task/process.

Donger 12-31-2013 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10324458)
The point is, your not supposed to. It works like iOS, you move on to the next program and leave the old one running. If an app is not the focus, then it doesn't take up any processing cycles, it just sits in the background waiting for you to use it again.

If you really want to close it though, then try CTRL+Shift+ESC and end the task/process.
I can't even figure out how to get back to the ****ing desktop...

kaplin42 12-31-2013 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10324463)
I can't even figure out how to get back to the ****ing desktop...
Some Ways:

1. Push Windows key to go back to Metro, select Desktop icon if you haven't unpinned it.

2. Windows Key + M

3. Alt + Tab to cycle through open windows and desktop

Donger 12-31-2013 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10324469)
Some Ways:

1. Push Windows key to go back to Metro, select Desktop icon if you haven't unpinned it.

2. Windows Key + M

3. Alt + Tab to cycle through open windows and desktop
Wow, thanks. This is really stupid.

kaplin42 12-31-2013 02:19 PM
Something that might help people having issues with Win 8.

Go to the Metro, then the App Store and look for Windows 8 Cheat Keys. It's a free app and might help you navigate/understand the OS a little more.

I think the biggest problem why people don't like Win 8 is that it is new and different from previous versions, not just in look in feel like XP was to 2000 and Vista/7 to XP, but it functions differently under the hood too. Because of this change, and little to no instructions from Microsoft, there is a huge perception that the OS is terrible, when in reality it's really stable, and faster than Win 7, one just has to learn how to use it properly.

kaplin42 12-31-2013 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10324474)
Wow, thanks. This is really stupid.
Also, if using a tablet, stroke from left side of the screen to center, that will cycle programs as well. If you drag your finger in from the left and then go back , you will get a snap window with all of your open programs on the left hand side that you can just tap to switch to.

Donger 12-31-2013 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10324483)
Also, if using a tablet, stroke from left side of the screen to center, that will cycle programs as well. If you drag your finger in from the left and then go back , you will get a snap window with all of your open programs on the left hand side that you can just tap to switch to.
It's running on a desktop. I did find out that if you grab the top of that program and pull it down to the bottom, it closes.

Hate it. Hate. Hate.

DaFace 12-31-2013 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10324335)
Be at Metro
Type program name Word
Push Enter
????
Profit
Again, having to use both the keyboard and mouse is inefficient. Also, you guys realize that the instant search for programs is there in the old start menu, right?

loochy 12-31-2013 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10324479)
Something that might help people having issues with Win 8.

Go to the Metro, then the App Store and look for Windows 8 Cheat Keys. It's a free app and might help you navigate/understand the OS a little more.

I think the biggest problem why people don't like Win 8 is that it is new and different from previous versions, not just in look in feel like XP was to 2000 and Vista/7 to XP, but it functions differently under the hood too. Because of this change, and little to no instructions from Microsoft, there is a huge perception that the OS is terrible, when in reality it's really stable, and faster than Win 7, one just has to learn how to use it properly.
Dos is fast and stable. One just has to learn how to use it

BWillie 12-31-2013 06:01 PM
No idea why Windows 8 gets the shit it does. It's adaptable, easy to use, efficient, .. I mean a completely moron can figure out how to use it. Same goes for Apple's GUI and what not, but I just like Windows 8 much better. I can work, I can play, can use it as a tablet or a desktop PC. What is not to like? Ohh right, it's Windows. It's not cool and hip.

DaFace 12-31-2013 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 10324928)
No idea why Windows 8 gets the shit it does. It's adaptable, easy to use, efficient, .. I mean a completely moron can figure out how to use it. Same goes for Apple's GUI and what not, but I just like Windows 8 much better. I can work, I can play, can use it as a tablet or a desktop PC. What is not to like? Ohh right, it's Windows. It's not cool and hip.
That has zero to do with it. I've been a Windows fan (relative to Mac) for years.

I've got no complaints about it as a tablet OS. The problem is, it sucks as a desktop OS.

007 12-31-2013 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10324936)
That has zero to do with it. I've been a Windows fan (relative to Mac) for years.

I've got no complaints about it as a tablet OS. The problem is, it sucks as a desktop OS.
That is exactly how I feel about it. All they had to do was keep the start button as an option for the desktop and nobody would be complaining at all. AS a tablet OS it works very well.

-King- 12-31-2013 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10323605)
Your method requires you to click on a poor replacement for the old Start button in order to bring up a tiled list of programs where each tile takes up WAY too much screen space and the list is randomly organized. You are forced to either swipe the screen (potentially several times) in order to find what you want, or you are forced to invoke the search function, bring up the virtual keyboard, and begin typing the first couple of letters of the name of the program you want.
Click all apps at the bottom and they will be in alphabetical order. Or shit...ARRANGE THE APPS YOURSELF!

Quote:
The Windows Start menu has all of your apps organized in alphabetical order, gives you the option to pin commonly used apps to a prominent position at the top, provides you with an easy way to find links to things such as the Control Panel, Printers, your documents, pictures, music, and a Help panel. Plus, it's a scrollable list that takes up less than a third of your screen real estate. The Metro interface was simply a lame attempt by Microsoft to make their interface mimic the interface used by the iPhone and iPad.
Everything you said you could do with the start menu, you can also do on metro.

Quote:
If you truly believe your method of finding an app is better and more efficient that the Start Menu that was introduced in Windows 95 and has been tweaked and improved in every iteration of Windows prior to Windows 8, then I'm not going to waste my time debating this issue with you. It's utterly hopeless and will just wind up frustrating me and everybody else who reads this thread.
Once again, you haven't explained how it's less efficient. It's way faster since you don't have to wade through menus. And if you do want to wade through them, you can put them into alphabetical order or in any order you want.

Quote:
The fact is that the vast majority of Windows users agree with me and disagree with you. That's why Microsoft is going to restore the actual Start menu in Windows 8.2. If you prefer to use your method, more power to you. Just don't continue to plead ignorance.
That's because people hate drastic change. Do I love Windows 8? No. But the start menu is the least of my concerns concerning it.

If you're too lazy to type the first two letters of an app to find it, that's on you, but don't say it's less efficient when it's not.

-King- 12-31-2013 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10324840)
Again, having to use both the keyboard and mouse is inefficient. Also, you guys realize that the instant search for programs is there in the old start menu, right?
But you don't have to use both keyboard or mouse either. You can put the apps in alphabetical order or make up your own order if you want.

007 12-31-2013 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10325340)
But you don't have to use both keyboard or mouse either. You can put the apps in alphabetical order or make up your own order if you want.
you do it your way we'll do it ours. JFC

DaFace 12-31-2013 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru (Post 10325350)
you do it your way we'll do it ours. JFC
Yeah, I really don't get the mentality here. CLEARLY, the majority of people think this system sucks, so what's the point in trying to convince us that it doesn't as if it's just a small minority who doesn't like it?

-King- 12-31-2013 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10325355)
Yeah, I really don't get the mentality here. CLEARLY, the majority of people think this system sucks, so what's the point in trying to convince us that it doesn't as if it's just a small minority who doesn't like it?
You're entitled to your opinion. But when you say one method is better than the other because of X, but it turns out you can do X on the other method, why shouldn't I point that out?

007 12-31-2013 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10325385)
You're entitled to your opinion. But when you say one method is better than the other because of X, but it turns out you can do X on the other method, why shouldn't I point that out?
your opinion is a matter of opinion as well.

DaFace 12-31-2013 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10325385)
You're entitled to your opinion. But when you say one method is better than the other because of X, but it turns out you can do X on the other method, why shouldn't I point that out?
You're more than welcome to point it out, but you keep acting like the system is somehow IMPROVED because of all the changes. Most of us don't feel that way at all, and even Microsoft has acknowledged that it doesn't work that well. If you like it, fine, but don't act like we're all stupid for not liking it.

-King- 12-31-2013 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10325407)
You're more than welcome to point it out, but you keep acting like the system is somehow IMPROVED because of all the changes. Most of us don't feel that way at all, and even Microsoft has acknowledged that it doesn't work that well. If you like it, fine, but don't act like we're all stupid for not liking it.
How have i acted like that? I haven't at any point said that the system is improved.

007 12-31-2013 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10325412)
How have i acted like that? I haven't at any point said that the system is improved.
Holy ****ing christ. ROFL

-King- 12-31-2013 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru (Post 10325418)
Holy ****ing christ. ROFL
Feel free to post a quote of me saying that it's improved.

007 12-31-2013 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 10325419)
Feel free to post a quote of me saying that it's improved.
That isn't what I am referring to. It is your attitude toward everyone that doesn't like the current format of Win8. You are acting as if we are all a bunch of dumb****s for not seeing the benefit of the new OS. The majority of windows users do not like it.

Now, if you have a tablet or a touchscreen monitor then that changes things but as a desktop application Win8 ****ing sucks in its current layout. When 8.2 comes out you won't hear as much bitching because it will finally be standard desktop friendly again.

-King- 12-31-2013 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru (Post 10325427)
That isn't what I am referring to. It is your attitude toward everyone that doesn't like the current format of Win8. You are acting as if we are all a bunch of dumb****s for not seeing the benefit of the new OS. The majority of windows users do not like it.
I have said NOTHING of the kind. All my posts have been about the start button only. I haven't said ANYTHING about the OS as a whole. But, w/e, agree to disagree.

htismaqe 12-31-2013 11:05 PM
I made the switch…

To OS X Lion.

So much better than Windows.

Lex Luthor 12-31-2013 11:57 PM
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.

007 01-01-2014 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10325504)
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.

This is my feelings 100%:clap::clap::clap:

Anyong Bluth 01-01-2014 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10325504)
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.
hyperbolic.

Plenty of fair criticism for Instituting a touch friendly- if not almost necessary ui version when the predominant userbase is still very much entrenched in the normal keyboard and mouse setup. 8.2 is expected to reimplement the standard Start button- so it's not the end of the world, and there's plenty of +s to the new OS otherwise.

I'm not a Microsoft fanboi, and didn't care for them ditching the Start button- but I do like the type feature to pull up what I'm looking for.

Ultimately, it's coming back, and this is much ado about nothing.

DaFace 01-01-2014 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth (Post 10326911)

I'm not a Microsoft fanboi, and didn't care for them ditching the Start button- but I do like the type feature to pull up what I'm looking for.
Again, that's a Windows Vista feature.

kaplin42 01-01-2014 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10324840)
Again, having to use both the keyboard and mouse is inefficient. Also, you guys realize that the instant search for programs is there in the old start menu, right?
you do have a windows key on the keyboard. And yes, the search was in 7 and Vista. Really, Metro is just a big blown up start menu, that you can run apps on.

007 01-01-2014 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10326935)
you do have a windows key on the keyboard. And yes, the search was in 7 and Vista. Really, Metro is just a big blown up start menu, that you can run apps on.
Its a big blown up start menu you that you have to organize yourself.

Anyong Bluth 01-01-2014 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10326912)
Again, that's a Windows Vista feature.
Yes I know this - once you clicked on the Start button- quickest way to get to the command prompt- cmd

-King- 01-02-2014 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10325504)
That's the problem I have with the Windows 8 fanboys like -King-. They try to act like they are superior to anyone who dares to criticize Windows 8, and they bend over backwards trying to "prove" how easy it is use the OS. They act like anyone who complains about Windows 8 is just an idiot who is ignorant of the magnificent elegance that is Windows 8.

I can navigate my way around Windows 8 just fine. In fact, I can navigate my way around just fine in all versions of Windows, IOS 6, IOS 7, Red Hat Linux, Linux Mint, Suse Linux, Ubuntu Linux, and several versions of Android, as well as the old MS-DOS systems and even the old Apple II and Atari 800 computers of the 1980s. I can also navigate my way around just fine with every major implementation of UNIX, including Sun Solaris, HP-UX, IBM's AIX system, and the UNIX System V systems sold by NCR.

I am not a n00b when it comes to computer operating systems. I've spent spent over 35 years installing and maintaining computer operating systems. I originally cut my teeth on IBM's mainframe MVS operating system. Hell, even the TSO/ISPF interface of MVS makes more sense than Windows 8.

Windows 8 had the highest learning curve of any GUI I've ever seen. That is absolutely LUDICROUS when you consider the fact that Windows 8 is simply an upgrade to the Windows OS that is literally used by over a billion people. It's like the developers at Microsoft went out of their way to make it counter-intuitive. It's the first time I've ever had to have a laptop sitting next to a new computer so that I could use Google over and over to figure out how to perform simple tasks that are intuitively obvious on most other GUIs.

I got over the learning curve for Windows 8 a long time ago, and I get along just fine with Windows 8. But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to point out and bitch about its shortcomings.
How the **** am I a fanboy? I've discussed ONE small aspect of the OS, missing the start button. I haven't commented on any other aspect much less the OS as a whole.
Posted via Mobile Device

Braincase 01-02-2014 06:36 PM
I like it on touchscreens.

I also am growing more curious about the Microsoft Midori project.

HemiEd 01-04-2014 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10300737)
It'll cost you $5, but I highly recommend Start8. It'll let you customize all that stuff to the point that it works just like Windows 7 if you want it to.
Thanks, just installed it and it helped my situation a lot! That was so annoying, it was well worth the $5

Saulbadguy 01-04-2014 02:53 PM
The built in reader and photo viewer app. Woof.

Crush 01-22-2014 09:17 AM
Windows 7 is making a comeback.

http://venturebeat.com/2014/01/20/ou...-doing-so-hot/

loochy 01-22-2014 09:25 AM
This whole thing with half of the programs being "apps" and half of the programs being regular programs is rather infuriating. If I open an "app", I can't quickly and easily close it. There's no x or minimize button. I have to move the mouse up to the right hand corner and find the correct "app" window and right click on it, then click close. Also, it wants to take up either all, half, or none of the screen. I want to resize it to how big I want it to be.

WHY THE HELL DO PROGRAMS NOT WORK IN A UNIFORM MANNER?!?!? Put the "apps" on the taskbar like regular programs or put programs in the upper right hand menu thing. This is just reeruned.

Donger 01-22-2014 09:40 AM
Ouch...

LMAO

GordonGekko 01-22-2014 10:27 AM
Windows 8 I probably will never try. I went from XP to 7, and will probably go from 7 to 9 whenever that comes out. Windows 8 just seemed like too much of a consolation to mobile devices that it just doesn't fit with the desktop experience.

hometeam 01-22-2014 10:39 AM
I was thinking about putting windows 8.1 on my secondary rebuild I am about to do. Keys are bringing 25 bucks right now for pro (so I can use 32gb ram)

I think it will be fine once I make the UI like win 7~

kaplin42 01-22-2014 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by loochy (Post 10386889)
This whole thing with half of the programs being "apps" and half of the programs being regular programs is rather infuriating. If I open an "app", I can't quickly and easily close it. There's no x or minimize button. I have to move the mouse up to the right hand corner and find the correct "app" window and right click on it, then click close. Also, it wants to take up either all, half, or none of the screen. I want to resize it to how big I want it to be.

WHY THE HELL DO PROGRAMS NOT WORK IN A UNIFORM MANNER?!?!? Put the "apps" on the taskbar like regular programs or put programs in the upper right hand menu thing. This is just reeruned.
To close an app, drag it from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Also, the difference between the two is interesting if you think about it. Microsoft tried to combine two experiences into one machine. The tablet-esque (think iPad) experience, and then an actual functional computer, that you could be productive on. The Metro and the apps are tablet orientated, and the desktop is traditional windows. There is definatly something to be desired in the execution of this intent, but I do like the idea.

I still stand by the notion that a lot of the Windows H8 comes from it being different, and general misunderstanding of how to use it. Since I have learned how to use it, and am comfortable with keyboard shortcuts, I can navigate the OS with ease, and find a lot of it's features pretty slick.

loochy 01-22-2014 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10387060)
To close an app, drag it from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Also, the difference between the two is interesting if you think about it. Microsoft tried to combine two experiences into one machine. The tablet-esque (think iPad) experience, and then an actual functional computer, that you could be productive on. The Metro and the apps are tablet orientated, and the desktop is traditional windows. There is definatly something to be desired in the execution of this intent, but I do like the idea.
Yeah, we figured out how to close it.

I see what they are trying to do with the tablet/computer thing, but man it just doesn't work smoothly.

Pick one way or the other and make it uniform...or wait until you have a complete solution instead releasing a halfway OS.

Omaha 01-22-2014 11:23 AM
I need a new desktop computer for my house. I'm considering making the switch to Windows 8 but this thread has me a little scared.

Anyong Bluth 01-22-2014 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10387060)
To close an app, drag it from the top of the screen to the bottom.

Also, the difference between the two is interesting if you think about it. Microsoft tried to combine two experiences into one machine. The tablet-esque (think iPad) experience, and then an actual functional computer, that you could be productive on. The Metro and the apps are tablet orientated, and the desktop is traditional windows. There is definatly something to be desired in the execution of this intent, but I do like the idea.

I still stand by the notion that a lot of the Windows H8 comes from it being different, and general misunderstanding of how to use it. Since I have learned how to use it, and am comfortable with keyboard shortcuts, I can navigate the OS with ease, and find a lot of it's features pretty slick.
I for the most part like 8.1- but think 9 will clear up most of the confusion and ire.

The part I put in bold is really the biggest implementation flaw that 8.x has had since launch. Sure, you can scour around to get a full run through of transitioning from 7 or xp, but they should have rolled in a way better tutorial showing side by side functionality between the 7 desktop on 1 side and how to achieve the same thing on 8 right next to it.

Even an option of dissolving functions- showing the old method to do something that would cue a reminder pane with a quick video showing you how to do the same thing within 8. After a while, the new method would be remembered, and the user could right click on the old method feature to dissolve its use going forward and use the new version 8 implementation.

They simply did a terrible job of presenting the UI with a thought out manner of getting people up to speed and at ease with working with the new environment.

Bob Dole 01-22-2014 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha (Post 10387144)
I need a new desktop computer for my house. I'm considering making the switch to Windows 8 but this thread has me a little scared.
Bob Dole is going to start calling Win8 "Windows ME Redux".

Donger 01-22-2014 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha (Post 10387144)
I need a new desktop computer for my house. I'm considering making the switch to Windows 8 but this thread has me a little scared.
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00

kaplin42 01-22-2014 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyong Bluth (Post 10387159)
I for the most part like 8.1- but think 9 will clear up most of the confusion and ire.

The part I put in bold is really the biggest implementation flaw that 8.x has had since launch. Sure, you can scour around to get a full run through of transitioning from 7 or xp, but they should have rolled in a way better tutorial showing side by side functionality between the 7 desktop on 1 side and how to achieve the same thing on 8 right next to it.

Even an option of dissolving functions- showing the old method to do something that would cue a reminder pane with a quick video showing you how to do the same thing within 8. After a while, the new method would be remembered, and the user could right click on the old method feature to dissolve its use going forward and use the new version 8 implementation.

They simply did a terrible job of presenting the UI with a thought out manner of getting people up to speed and at ease with working with the new environment.
I agree. M$ should have offered some more thorough tutorials, or even better, right from release a toggle setting.

Toggle ON = Use Metro with touch features enabled. Works great for all touch screen devices, and is really what the Metro is designed for.

Toggle Off = Windows 8 uses a traditional style of look and feel with a desktop and start menu.

If they would have just done that, half of the problems would have been solved. Why touch screens are here to stay, not everyone have or had them at the time of release. M$ should have given their customers the choice of how to run the OS for the device they had.

I swear the biggest fail at M$ is their marketing department, they just suck, and always have. A really big reason why Apple is so successful is their marketing,

htismaqe 01-22-2014 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10387182)
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00
Linux is free.

Anyong Bluth 01-22-2014 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaplin42 (Post 10387195)
I agree. M$ should have offered some more thorough tutorials, or even better, right from release a toggle setting.

Toggle ON = Use Metro with touch features enabled. Works great for all touch screen devices, and is really what the Metro is designed for.

Toggle Off = Windows 8 uses a traditional style of look and feel with a desktop and start menu.

If they would have just done that, half of the problems would have been solved. Why touch screens are here to stay, not everyone have or had them at the time of release. M$ should have given their customers the choice of how to run the OS for the device they had.

I swear the biggest fail at M$ is their marketing department, they just suck, and always have. A really big reason why Apple is so successful is their marketing,

...and one of the many reasons why Ballmer being gone should be a good thing.

Ya, we all use touchscreens- except I'd bet that the average desktop / laptop setup with touchscreen is no more than 5% at this point- just your typical keyboard and mouse setup. Ironically, the touchscreen setups that do run windows are for primarily for specific software, like at kiosks, atms, etc, and they are running xp, or 7.
I just saw a story about the headache banks are tackling now because 95% of the atm machines in the world run off xp, and it is no longer supported by MS- which means that they have to scramble to update quickly because the last thing you want is your banking system vulnerable and no longer supported for patches and updated!

Of course this isn't new news, and I don't feel bad for them, they've had years of notice, and pissed away transitioning time to avoid this stupidity!

On a sidenote, I wouldn't envy Cook's position or job security at Apple. Even if he does a fine job, the expectations are reality of sustainable growth were never going to keep at their meteoric pace.

Seems like there's some chippiness and intra-department squabbling among the higher up division heads, and the name that keeps popping up the most with other Apple talent and managers is Jony Ive, Job's golden apple boy , and head of design, etc.

I'm actually questioning not if, but when he will be handed the reins and the company's head. He seems to be acting rather cavalier and little bothered lately about worrying if or whose toes he steps on.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10387182)
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00
I believe HP in the last 2 or 3 days, announced that they are going to offer windows 7 as an option on their new laptops. PC sales have taken a big plunge, and it's believed that being forced into 8 is causing some to put off buying in the interim until 8.2 or 9 becomes available to restore some of the 7 "classic" layout and interface.

hometeam 01-22-2014 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10387182)
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00
Please don't pay that kind of money.

Download the installer, and buy a key from www.reddit.com/r/softwareswap for 20 or 30 bucks.

Anyong Bluth 01-22-2014 04:40 PM
*Speak of the devil...

Quote:


New Windows 8.1 update screenshots leaked?

NEW WINDOWS 8.1 UPDATE SCREENSHOTS LEAKED?

By*Konrad Krawczyk**—***January 22, 20141119924

A Russian site*by the name of Wzor*may have gotten the early scoop on the changes coming in*the next significant Windows 8.1 update,*which could be released to the public during Microsoft’s developer-focused Build conference.

The conference will be held between April 2 and April 4 of this year.*In the alleged screenshots posted by Wzor, we noticed a button on the Taskbar in the classic desktop UI that appeared to be a button sporting the Windows app store insignia.

However, it’s unclear whether the app store would run within the desktop UI, or simply take you back to the tiled Metro/Modern interface and run there.

Microsoft is allegedly chipping away on the idea already, looking to make non-desktop apps accessible and usable from the desktop. What isn’t known is if such a feature would appear in this update, a future Windows 8.1 update, or be held back entirely for the launch of Windows 9,*which could be released in the middle of 2015.

This begs the question though: if Microsoft is set on making Modern/Metro apps usable from the desktop UI, then why have the tiled interface to begin with? If the purpose of Windows 8 and 8.1 was to get PC users acclimated to the tiled UI and steer them away from the desktop UI that they knew (and loved), giving people the option to use apps designed for that UI within the tried-and-true desktop environment is hardly a vote of confidence for Modern/Metro on Microsoft’s part.

If Microsoft indeed does release a Windows 8.1 update during their Build conference, it’ll be interesting to see what significant changes, if any, will be made to the polarizing OS

Read more:*http://www.digitaltrends.com/computi...ixzz2rAZUkPub*

Follow us:*@digitaltrends on Twitter*|*digitaltrendsftw on Facebook
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/2arareha.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/6ehu6a9u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/4yvudaqu.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/23/yzyda4u4.jpg

If this ends up legit, 99% of the hostility about 8.x will evaporate in one fell swoop of an update downloaded install, and all of about 30-40 minutes to silence the year + of backlash.

DaFace 01-22-2014 04:59 PM
I don't get it. Windows 8.1 has been out for a long time now.

Crush 01-22-2014 05:14 PM
Yeah and you still need a third-party program such as Start8 or Classic Shell to get the Windows 7-style start menu back.


The start menu in those screenshots is a piss-poor imitation.

Anyong Bluth 01-22-2014 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10387842)
I don't get it. Windows 8.1 has been out for a long time now.
I'm assuming it's a incremental update, and they just aren't bumping the release number up to 8.2.
(8.1.5 or 8.1xxx or something like that? )

Probably, if this is a real update, they will have this update and maybe 1 service pack, like late 2014, in between now and when they are expected to put out the RC of windows 9 many are saying will be slated for Summer of 2015.

The word is one of the perks their Build tech conference will include will be a 1st build release of 9. Subsequently after that got out the event sold out in a flash.

Lex Luthor 01-22-2014 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger (Post 10387182)
As you should be. I'm seriously considering by a copy of Windows 7 for $175.00 for a desktop that cost $450.00
Before you do that you should really try Classic Shell or Start8. They fix the major problem with Windows 8 and they are a lot cheaper than $175.

Lex Luthor 01-22-2014 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 10387842)
I don't get it. Windows 8.1 has been out for a long time now.
Windows 8.1 didn't really fix the major problem with Windows 8. It's like some smart-ass at Microsoft decided that if everybody was demanding a START button, he'd give them a completely worthless START button as an act of defiance so that he could say "THERE'S your goddamn START button!"

The START button in Windows 8.1 is worthless. Windows 8.1 may make some minor changes to Windows 8, but that's it.

Ragged Robin 01-22-2014 07:33 PM
Used Windows 8 at work. ****ing terrible so we got them install Windows 7 instead.

kaplin42 01-22-2014 09:08 PM
LOL. Change is hard.

Gravedigger 01-22-2014 09:19 PM
If history has taught us anything is that XP was great, Vista was shit, 7 was great, 8 was shit, 9 should be.... SHOULD BE..... great....

BigRedChief 01-22-2014 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 10387889)
Before you do that you should really try Classic Shell or Start8. They fix the major problem with Windows 8 and they are a lot cheaper than $175.
Bought the wife a new touch screen laptop for christmas. She likes the touch screen, tablet style OS feel and look.

she needed a more power than a tablet. Was thinking here ya go, the windows OS for you............. hated it. No start button? Really? How do I get all those damn apps where I want? Remove the ones I hate?

Just bought Start8 and fences. Now I have a happy camper.

Fat Elvis 01-22-2014 09:47 PM
I think I am the only person in the universe that really likes Windows 8. Well, myself and my 8 year old daughter.

Windows 8 is SUPER easy. It may be too easy and that is where a lot of the frustration comes from, if you ask me.

kcxiv 01-22-2014 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis (Post 10388211)
I think I am the only person in the universe that really likes Windows 8. Well, myself and my 8 year old daughter.

Windows 8 is SUPER easy. It may be too easy and that is where a lot of the frustration comes from, if you ask me.
Doesnt bother me at all. I only do general internet surfing and use my PC as a media center.

DaFace 01-22-2014 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravedigger (Post 10388161)
If history has taught us anything is that XP was great, Vista was shit, 7 was great, 8 was shit, 9 should be.... SHOULD BE..... great....
Yeah, it pretty much goes all the way back to 95 (and maybe even further, but I don't know much about pre-Windows 3.1 systems):

95 - Dramatic overhaul of the OS, but pretty buggy.
98 - Much more reliable. Not a ton of new features comparatively.
ME - Abortion in terms of reliability. Started toward a more visually pleasing GUI.
XP - Brought the stability of the NT branch into the GUI of the consumer branch.
Vista - Revamped a lot of the OS. Buggy as hell.
7 - Didn't change much. Works great.
8 - Pretty reliable, but horrible GUI integration and rollout.
9 - Much better implementation of whatever they're trying to push us toward so that it doesn't seem so awkward?


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