I watched episode two last night. If only they would have shown the Rodney King beating a few more times, they may have been able to stoke a little more hate.

I saw this episode last night. I appeared to me that the knife was inserted and twisted, which is why there were large gaping holes.

Evil.

Right. So breaking into ones house and stealing expensive shit is bullshit? Stay the **** wherever the hell you are and out of my town.

That's the first I've heard of the picnic thing.

The whole racism angle is always so foreign to me. I've never been compelled to hate somebody because they're black or whatever. It obviously existed, and probably still does. But I have plenty of mother****ers to hate that actually deserve it, I don't feel compelled to arbitrarily hate people. That doesn't have anything to do with your post but I thought I should say it.

The Cosby thing was especially bad. He had taken a very public stance that black men should earn the respect of whomever through their actions. And then it turns out that the only guy (that I know of) spreading that message - which needs to be heard by ALL young men, not just black men - turns out to be a kiddie diddler. Damn it.

I wish other celebrities would adopt that message.

There is no 'picnic' thing.

I finished watching all the parts and wow! In his agent and another guys interviews the stories they told were him admitting guilt in a nutshell. His agent point blank. The Las Vegas thing is comical as hell. Bunch of nut balls with no sense.

I am guessing they must have shown that clip of the Rodney King beating at least 15 times. They showed the Reginald Denny beating (truck driver) for few seconds a couple of times.
Rodney King did something to deserve police action, even though it looks very well over the top.
Reginald Denny was just a white guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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This. Really enjoying this.

Also relevant detail: supposedly Marcus Allen has a 13" penis. Nicole told OJ she "just played with him".

Yep

The judicimal system.

".....no. Heroin. Heroin, Frank"

"Uhh...,that's a pretty tall order Nordberg, you're gonna have to giveme a few days on that one. "

Nice beaver.

My fault. I've never heard of the nonsense Arrow is spewing.

Accurate enough?

Finally finished it tonight. Pretty impressive piece of work. Nobody really comes out of it looking very good, but I guess that's the point. Such a complex story, and so much going on beneath the surface. It was really well done.

Do not watch episode 4 if you're squeamish. Hamas isn't kidding there. I streamed it on the Watch ESPN app and it was completely uncensored. I was not expecting that. They pulled no punches with the crime scene photos.

Sure. Sorry if I sounded judgmental, as it appears you thought I did. If you hadn't heard of it one way or another, its reasonable to be receptive to information [cough, bullshit] like Arrow was spewing. I just didn't want it to go unchallenged.

Arrow spouts this shit twice or 3x a year like it's established fact. He gets rebuked with reality, continues on for a bit with his racist rants, then fades into the woodwork again. It's tedious, and I didn't want you to walk away with a false impression.

OJ admits he had someone with him if you believe what he wrote in his book here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/if-i-...simpson-2016-2

Although the part about him blacking out is pretty much a confession that he did it.

The crime scene footprints were another big thing the prosecution messed up on. IIRC there were footprints of a very rare type of shoe, only a couple hundred pairs made. In the civil trial the prosecution produced a photo of OJ wearing those shoes.

Bruno Magli.

They tried hard to make an issue of it in the criminal trial. OJ wore a size 12, and shopped at a store that carried pairs out of the 200 size 12s total imported to the US, and the salesman recalled discussing the specific model that would have made the print on the scene. The salesman was very firm on OJ buying that specific make of BM, but OJ denied in deposition that he would ever wear 'those ugly-ass shoes.' The store didn't have modern inventory control to establish specifically time, date, and model purchases one way or another, so it was OJ's word against the salesman.

The photo of him wearing the shoes at a Bills game was unearthed after the criminal trial and was used in the civil trial.

And supposedly several more photos of him wearing those shoes have come out. Pretty damning. Along with all the other evidence, there's no way he didn't do it. Of course, he still could have gotten acquitted because OMG MARK FUHRMAN IS DA RACIST. That female juror even admitted "If the prosecution had presented themselves differently maybe they win". I don't know why the F that matters. Only the facts should matter not whether Clark was a shrill bitch or Darden was a token black guy.

Very interesting. DVRing because of this thread.

Oh and ARROW- :facepalm:

....seems to me that this kind of kickstarted "reality" TV.

You have to wonder if the cameras in the courtroom caused a celebrity atmosphere (great new hairdo Marcia!), leading to showboating and piss poor prosecution. As if they didn't get in their own way enough. Dardin with the gloves, detective in possession of blood, Fuhrman lying on the stand, etc..

Watched a computer simulation of the killings that came off as pretty legit. Hits Nicole..goes after Goldman(understatement)..then comes back to nicole.. Talked about lifting each person up with the blade point in the back of the neck...just brutal.

OJ might've been broken down, but that kind of deep seated rage of betrayal? Definitely enough emotion based adrenaline to commit those crimes, IMO.

I have no doubt this is where it all blew up. Mrs. Kardashian was paying attention.

As I mentioned earlier, I re-read the entire witness testimony from the trial last week. From the witness testimony:

Mr. Poser: I told him that I did not recall selling the Lorenzo boot to Mr. Simpson. I also said that for the use in Buffalo, I probably would not have sold Mr. Simpson the Lorenzo boot for the climatic conditions that were there.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...pson/Poser.htm

This is actually pretty fascinating, IMO, and indicates that Simpson most definitely had help, which is what many people thought before and during the trial.

---

Simpson and Kato Kaelin, who was staying in Simpson's guesthouse, get burgers after Simpson returns from the recital. Simpson begins to pack for a flight to Chicago later that night when Charlie shows up. This is where Simpson clarifies that the following is "hypothetical."

Charlie is a fictional acquaintance who reveals information about Brown that sets Simpson off. Charlie says that some friends of his were in Cabo when they saw Brown and her friend Faye at a party.

"There was a lot of drugs and a lot of drinking, and apparently things got pretty kinky," Charlie recounts.

Simpson decides that "Nicole was the enemy" and tells Charlie to get in the Bronco because they are "going to scare the s--- out of that girl."

He grabs a wool hat, the infamous gloves that would later be used as evidence at the trial, and a knife stashed under the seat, but Charlie takes the knife from him. After entering through a broken back gate, Simpson notices that Brown has candles in the window, which he presumes are for a man she is expecting.

At this point, Ron Goldman, a waiter from the restaurant the Brown family ate at, arrives with glasses left by Nicole's mom. This sparks Simpson's rage and he begins screaming. Brown emerges from her house and starts yelling back. She attempts to come after him, but slips and hits her head. Goldman gets in a karate stance and Simpson grabs the knife from Charlie before blacking out.

After regaining consciousness, Simpson is covered in blood, unsure of what's just happened. Before getting back in the Bronco, he undresses and wraps his bloody clothes in a bundle. He passes the waiting limo on his way back to his house and pulls off into the shadows, leaving the weapon and clothes to Charlie and instructing him to park the car and leave when the limo pulls away.

As he's running back and sneaking into his house, Simpson bumps into an air-conditioning unit, which startles Kato. He washes up, gets in the limo, and flies off to Chicago where he gets the phone call about his wife's murder. After arriving back in LA, he agrees to go talk to the cops with no lawyers present.

In the last episode of this documentary there's a brief blip talking about OJ insinuating he didn't do this alone. But it doesn't go much deeper than that.

Did he find the killers yet?

Just finished episode 5. That whole thing was amazing. I'd go watch a movie just about the ridiculous Vegas caper. Like Reservoir Dogs but with total morons.

Still looking...

It thought it interesting that Carl Douglas stated that "normally", OJ's Vegas sentence would be two years.

It's going to be really interesting to see if he's paroled in 2017.

Oh, the DNA test to determine whether or not he's Khloe Kardashian's father is just another example of the craziness that went on between all of those people.

Would anyone be shocked if he's her father?

...if what you said is true, coke and Goldman, and Resnick and sex parties?

Oh, man.. you know he went OFF.

I just hope it isn't Marcus...

You know, it's one of those things that "everyone" knew about but it wasn't openly reported by the media. I mean, it took like literally one day for all that stuff to come out and everyone on the Westside, especially Brentwood, all knew about it.

In 1997, our offices at the time weren't but about 5 minutes from Brentwood and the VP's and President used to take us out all the time to restaurants. It was still the talk of the town, especially with the civil trial happening.

It made it hard to believe that it didn't happen like it was rumored.

The other thing, and I know this from experience unfortunately, is that Faye Resnick is a despicable human being. She isn't a murderer but she certainly pushed Nicole into pushing OJ's buttons constantly. What did she do after the murder of her "best friend"?

Write a tell all book, which should be enough to show her character.

Here's what's odd to me about the situation: Kris Jenner admitted to having affairs while married to Robert Kardashian (big shock, I know) but she never admitted with whom she had the affairs.

There were rumors that Khloe was adopted or had a different dad, rumors that were backed up by both of Robert Kardashian's subsequent wives. Kardashian admitted to them both that he wasn't Khloe's father.

Now, Khloe wants OJ to take a DNA test to see if she's her father. OJ has agreed, as long as she's willing to visit him in prison. If your Kris Jenner, why aren't you telling Khloe, her daughter, "You're wasting your time having OJ tested" if she didn't sleep with him?

We might see him in Keeping Up With The Whores when he is released. Wouldn't surprise me. OJ gonna work that deal with Khloe.

I could be completely wrong but at this point in time, I'll be shocked if parole is granted.

He was a "one armed man."

Once you go white...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everything is going to be alright.

Your credit gets right

Ha ha!! Allegedly, on the very night of the 'raid' in Las Vegas that sent OJ to prison, the robbery ring OJ assembled were watching KimK announce her new reality show on Tyra Banks right before they left.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...f4095?section=

Through episode 4 and this really is a great documentary. I graduate HS in '94 and most of what I knew about the situation in LA was from West Coast music. I wore out Ice Cube's The Predator in '92, which had lyrics like:

April 29th was power to the people
And we might just see a sequel
Cos police got equal pay
A horse is a pig that don't fly straight
Doin Darryl Gates but is Willie Williams
Down with the pilgrims

Downset - Anger (1994)

187 LA trademark, don't come to the killing fields
If you ain't got no ****ing heart
'Cuz Willie (Williams), Ira (Salzman, Stacey Koons attorney) and Daryl (Gates) will get you

These were people that I had heard of in the Midwest simply from stories being told in songs about the situation in LA. I didn't really care enough to follow the trial at the time, so it's pretty cool to get a look back as an adult and see what an absolute clown show they made of the American judicial system and civil rights movement.

I'm obviously biased, but the 90's were wild.

Did the documentary include the eyewitness coverage of Robert Higgins?

Don't be shocked, he was paroled on the first sentence.

Hell of ratings bump for the tv show.

Yeah, absolutely agreed.

Though, not a kiddie diddler, right? I don't think his many rapes including any of underage girls. But maybe I missed it in the ridiculously long list of rapes that one or more were underage at the time.

I thought it was incredible. Completely must watch television.

Yeah, the crime scene photos were jarring. Holy shit.

I agree no one comes out looking good. Furman is a piece of trash, the jurors are ****ing dogs, his ex-agent is a scum leach...

Totally agree with TBG. Great show. One of the best I've seen in years.

I loved the interviews with Carl Douglas. That guy is the epitome of the classic defense lawyer. When he talked about how they redecorated the house before the jury toured the house on Rockingham with African American art and pictures with black people on it, that was priceless.

Just a lot of bumbling all around there. And the circus show with OJ and the memorabilia collectors was priceless. How he skates on double murder and then goes to the hole for THAT is crazy ironic. The date, the sentence, all of it.

I've only got to see the last two of them. But I tell you what it makes you hate everybody involved in the entire deal.

The whole thing was put together quite well one of the best documentary series I have seen in awhile. I don't think I ever saw the footage of the Korean owner shooting the black girl in the back of the head. That was brutal, and she gets probation?

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Could be. I thought it was kiddie diddling but I wasn't paying attention.

No, just women rapin'. Many, many, women...

Part 2

I waited on Ice Cube in the USVI when Predator was the #1 album in the country. His gf ordered a fruit plate, ate all the cantaloupe, then sent it back - for a refund. Nice guy though otherwise - not nearly as big as you expect, kinda short with rounded shoulders.

Well, Im not Duane either, but I think its an incredibly well told and beautifully depicted story of our history. From the early 60s in SO Cal, racial tensions, The LAPD, good and bad, OJ's history and the fact he was "colorless" to so many. The story of his fame, celebrity and we gobbled it up as a society. It tells the story of his relationship with Nicole, and while some things will be familiar, there is a backstory, that even us who watched it didn't know.

I agree with the OP, this may be the best documentary I have ever seen.

I was waiting tables at Macaroni Grill when the verdict came in. It was in the afternoon so only a few tables and all the employees were sitting around watching it. Everyone was shocked except the black waiters and cooks who were jumping for joy.

I never really fully understood why until now after watching that doc. Terrible verdict - but just the feeling of the black community to finally win one after being trampled for so long. Ironically another terrible sentencing put OJ away for much longer than that crime should have warranted. So in the end - with two wrongs the system sort of got it right, and the black community in LA got to have a huge release that may have prevented more riots. Very American indeed.

I havent watched anything other than part 1-2, but during part 2, I couldnt watch the Rodney King Beating, which I found odd bc I watched it a ton of times back in the day when it happened. But I tell you what, I felt sick to my stomach the more they showed that video and I had to cover my eyes. That was so damn brutal, and the fact that they got off is still unnerving.

The most disturbing part about it is they followed what were accepted police procedures at the time. If the suspect charged at you (which happened early in the video, but it was out of focus), you were apparently allowed to beat him until he stops moving.

I too think this is probably the best documentary I've seen. It certainly covers the saga of LA Cops, Rodney King, OJ, all of it. It's weird having lived through it how long ago it seems, and in other ways I can't believe it happened the year my son was born.

I like that they are going to serious depths to show what the climate was in LA and WHY it was that way. It's not slanted in my opinion, they even gave Furhman (spoiler alert for episode 4) his little feel sorry for me speech.

In the end, (I still need to watch episode 5) the saddest part to me was the indifference that some in the black community had for the victims, who never got justice...but that's because they also felt that they never got justice...it's a big sick story, but it's fascinating for sure. Gives you a LOT to think about.

Read a very interesting paper from F. Lee Bailey on the trial. There's a lot of stuff in there I never heard and he remains convinced of OJs innocence. Evidently the defense had plenty more firepower and witnesses they could have used, including someone who saw Nicole talking to 2 men outside her house that night parked in a truck, but they felt they were running out of time and didnt want to drag things out further as they felt the prosecution was trying to force jurors out and get a mistrial. They were terrified of that.

Here is the paper:


http://baileyandelliott.com/oj_simpson.htm

Among things I didn't know:

A man in the neighborhood was walking his dog thru Nicoles neighborhood that night, less than 100 feet away, and saw her outside talking to a man standing by a white F-350. There was another man standing close by in a threatening posture. The man had owned 11 ford trucks during his life so evidently knew what he was seeing**

Another witness walking another dog thru the neighborhood that night thru a parallel alley reported a dog barking and someone shouting "hey, hey!"

OJ did cut his hand on a glass in his hotel room in chicago. Police found parts of the glass in the sink with his blood on them, and more blood on the pillow.

Based on several witnesses and experts OJ acted nothing like a guilty man would be expected to act. On the flight to chicago he hung out with the captain of the fight. On the flight back to L.A. he sat next to a N.Y. area attorney. The attorney was so convinced of his innocence just based on OJs reactions vs what is typical he wrote a letter to the prosecution and defense.

The prosecution definitely planted evidence. There was a sock found in OJs room with nicoles blood on it. However, the blood went all the way thru the middle of both sides of the sock, which wouldnt happen if he was wearing the sock at the time. Additionally, there were pictures taken of OJs room when investigators got there which showed pictures of the room from various (all) angles with no sock on the floor.


** Alas, F. Lee Bailey presents a very good case but the front of an early 90's F-350 and Ford Bronco look too much alike, especially at night. It was, to me, obviously O.J. and someone else pulled up to the curb that night.

Hard to say but in the end everyone thought he was guilty...even the jurors that voted him innocent are now starting to think he did it. In the end...they took his lifestyle, his money, his possessions, his kid, tore his house down, and eventually threw him in jail where I think he belongs.

It took more than 14 years for everything to catch up to him and had he not been so dumb, he'd still be out, living his life same lifestyle.

He owned a mansion in Florida until recently and lost it because his daughter failed to make the payments. His NFL pension is $25k per month. While he lost all of his endorsement deals, he was still living high on the hog. He was also earning a reported $1 million per year in autograph sales alone, yet only paid the Goldman's $3 million of the $33 million dollar settlement.

If he's paroled in 2017 (which I find doubtful but possible), look for him to be everywhere once again. The public is fascinated with him, the trial and the murders.

And Fred Goldman will be lurking, every step of the way.

LMAO

Lookie here...

I see OJ man, and he looks scared.

Totally farcical.

Al Michaels was on Howard's show shortly after "The Chase" and it was absolutely hysterical. Peter Jennings had absolutely no idea what was happening and Al had to butt in.

But the call was a classic. So freakin' funny.

Yeah, he's been on several times - and they always go out of their way to say, "lest anyone think" or "totally farcical."

The NY lawyer is an idiot. A killer can act normal if they are at peace with themselves. Killers do that all the time. When he was really put to questions at the civil trial and busted cold for owning the boots that made bloody prints at the scene he had no answers that were believable. He did it or at least participated while another person helped him.

The man is/was a successful Harvard educated copyright lawyer that immediately made notes about OJ's behavior on the plane. He copyrighted the notes so that no one could publish them without his permission, then sent a copy to the DA's office and to the defense team.

He never tried to paint OJ as guilty or innocent. He took notes because as he was sitting next to OJ, his demeanor changed immediately after he was informed of his wife's murder and thought that his notes would be helpful if a court case was to move forward.

Yeah, so what? Seriously, a copyright lawyer has no more insight into the psychology of a murderer being told this news than a janitor or you or me. If he was a psychologist who was an expert in criminal behavior, or a criminologist, or a homicide detective maybe.

A copyright lawyer has literally no useful insights on this, and I don't give a crap what law school he went to.

Yeah....that guy doesn't know shit.

He could be a world-renowned astrophysicist and I wouldn't care.

Maybe if he were a prosecutor or criminal defense attorney I could see him having taken classes on criminal psychology that would be helpful.

As it is - he's just another guy on an airplane who couldn't tell the difference between a psychopath and Miss Cleo. To whatever extent he made notes, they're no more valuable that any lay-persons. The law recognizes present-sense impressions and the fact that they have some inherent reliability, so to that degree the notes might be interesting (though I question whether or not they were truly made contemporaneously with the events in question).

But really - I'm inclined to not give a wet fart either way.

Well, the point was that he's not "an idiot", as proclaimed in the text I quoted.

He sent his notes to both the prosecution and the defense. He wasn't playing favorites. He noted OJ's behavior because he thought it might be relevant to a murder case.

It seems like a pretty smart thing to do. Make note of someone's behavior, especially someone as famous as OJ Simpson, while sitting next to him for five hours after learning that his wife was just murdered.

All he did was make notes. And as far as I'm aware, he never sold them or released to the public. Only to the DA and defense team were given access.

No one at that point in time had any idea that Simpson was a sociopath.

FWIW, in case anyone forgot, the lawyer was called to testify.

That's precisely the point, though. If he is (and there is ample reason to believe so), this guy's not going to have much in the way of pertinent information. How he acts/reacts is going to be pretty irrelevant if OJ is simply devoid of an emotional tether.

Ultimately it gets back to the ol' 'brick is not a wall' thing. This guy's testimony isn't wall....it's not even a brick. It's one of those stones you toss into the bag of sakrete because you didn't have any place to put it. It ultimately doesn't mean much of anything.

I don't know if his testimony meant anything to jury, as the only testimony they reviewed was that of the limo driver.

I'm also not sure why F. Lee Bailey points this information, which both sides had, as proof of innocence.

But in the grand scheme of things, I think it would be interesting to read, if for nothing other than proof of Simpson's sociopathic behavior.

And that's exactly why it's probably a bad idea to have introduced it.

You see it as potential proof of Simpson being a sociopath (as would I). The Simpson defense team obviously meant for it to be something else, but look at how quickly you could get shot with your own gun there.

That's exactly why it's bad evidence. The potential gains are nominal at best and in reality, it could easily backfire on you.

Yeah, it's an odd thing to point to. Bailey's a better attorney than I'll ever be, but even the best fall victim to their own hubris from time to time. Nobody's immune from falling in love with their own ideas.

I'm in the midst of a long, passionate affair with mine. :)

He was interviewed by psychologists and other experts immediately after the incident this section talks about them:

http://baileyandelliott.com/Anecdote...Part%20Two.pdf


He was also given a polygraph by Shapiro that he failed.

Unless he has CTE.:hmmm:

I can't wait for J Lo to act in the Hollywood version of this. Maid in America

I could argue this too, I guess. I have known some Harvard law grads who were idiots in many ways. But I would definitely agree that the overwhelming majority of Harvard law grads are not, so we can roll with it.

Yeah, but it kind of isn't. His background doesn't help here. He knows nothing more about the behavior of murderers than you or me. I'm a lawyer too (though not Harvard), but I don't know anything more about murderer psychology than any bozo on the street.

:shrug:

Only if a psychologist or other expert weighs in. "this is how he acted" means nothing unless it's meaningful to someone who has studied it.

In other words, the lawyer here is a fact witness, not an expert witness, regarding OJ's behavior during that flight. :D

That makes perfect sense and I totally get it.

Why didn't the prosecution object to his testimony because he wasn't an expert? All Marcia Clark tried to do was minimize the importance of his observations.

I guess the prosecution really was as incompetent as described.

I haven't watched the show, but my memory from the time is that the judge was terrible, the prosecutors ok but not that great, the defense team excellent, and the cops complete ****tards.

As I'm not terribly familiar with the testimony, I'm uncertain why they didn't try to keep it out. He must have been testifying as a fact witness, not an expert.

Once I watch the new show, I can probably comment with more intelligence.