au contraire mon fere.

Unless you mean by "awhile" another 12 to 18 months.. then yes you are probably correct.

How many of those tie into the Play market?

Officially? That's actually a complicated answer. What you see mostly are 3rd party Chinese market specific app stores. They work just fine for that market but obviously would have issues if you bought one there and brought it here. The biggest issue why Play isn't bigger there is due to censorship and monetizing issues.

Of course. They do nothing for the Google ecosystem. If they did, Google wouldn't be selling at to below cost.

IF they're doing anything, they're running Android apps and getting some advertising back. I assume they have some of the highest piracy rates in the world, and Google is going at that.

Google has become very clear in what they'll do. They'll put out open source Android code, but that's it. And they're willing to overlook the Cyanogen community. But if you distribute a product, and don't make it compatible with Google, you're done.

Counting the white market is like counting the Chinese market for knockoff NFL jerseys. It exists, sure, but does it contribute anything back home?

Not really man, I think you are underselling the importance of driving down hardware costs. Those tablets aren't as big a part of the ecosystem ONLY because of the social/political climate there. BUT that doesn't stop them from driving down commodity costs for everyone. It's an important segment.

Either way, they are tablets over 7".. they count! (as per my bet regarding Apple market share.. which I will still probably lose because MS is a full 8 months behind my estimates on a release date... ****ers... although I still have one segment that I can't find numbers for that could put me on top... but these freakin numbers are almost impossible to find.)

But you have two massive companies selling tablets at cost already. What more can you do?

I bought a Nexus 7, and I got $25 free to spend with Google along with it. Hardware isn't important; it's all about the ecosystem. Google wants you invested in gmail, youtube, drive, chrome, play, etc. Do you think Google has made any money on me yet?

I mean they probably have, because I'm a long time user of their services. But they certainly haven't on the Nexus yet.

It's also a bit naive to think white manufactures have much influence over prices. You have two disruptive companies right now - ASUS and Amazon. And the first comes with Google's help; their flagships are still priced accordingly.

ok, we are talking about two totally different things here. I am talking about driving down cost of manufacturing. As you see more and more white box sales, it becomes cheaper and cheaper to manufacture various components. So if Google sells a Nexus at cost right now for $200... soon they can sell at cost for $175 then $150...

White box manufacturing helps drive down the cost of MAKING the tablets... while also creating pressure to sell at low prices. Yes, the Nexus isn't going to drop in price unless the manufacturing cost drops.. which is exactly what increased white box production does. Along the way, it helps make sure some idiot company like Motorola thinks twice before releasing a $600 tablet again.

What are they driving down the costs of though? Give me an example?


I just don't think your premise makes sense. You have a handful of processors that can run modern day tablets. The S4, Tegra 3, OMAP whatever. And you have a limited supply there. Also with your screens.

With desktops and laqptops it was different, because you had a giant, open ecosystem. With phones and tablets, it's completely closed. Apple is proprietary, Microsoft is almost there, and Google supports one or maybe two each cycle, and leaves it up to the manufacturers to make it work. And you still have plenty of proprietary parts in there they have to make work. There's no "driver" system. There's no real economy of scale, outside of perhaps Apple and Samsung. And between those two, neither wants to drive down prices.

Dude, you are WAY off on the hardware side of this. It is FAR FAR FAR more open than you think it is.

Here is a big example. Do you know what the majority of these new white box manufacturers used to make? Netbooks. They have retooled factories and the result is more competition in the assembly space. You also have more and more (and more) companies entering the display space. Check out the Taiwanese players that are ramping up... mostly because of white box sales... ChiMei Innolux is a good example. Same for processors actually, you have ZTE, HUAWEI and Lenovo making tablet procs. Hell there is even a HUGE growth right now in MIPS procs for tablets.

I'm telling you, there is a whole other world of tablets out there that is JUST AS LARGE as the stuff we hear about here and it is far more WIDE OPEN.

That's fair enough to say, but where does it exist? ZTE? No one other than you and me even knows they're making an intel phone. HUAWEI, everyone is scared as **** to touch them.

It's ecosystem, not hardware. That's what Android is all about.

Oh I agree on ecosystem.. I was just making an entirely seperate point about hardware pricing alone.

Not at all trying to undersell your point which is even more important in the grand scheme of things.

You guys care way too much about this debate.

You care way too much about telling people the fact that you don't really care about this debate.

You care way too much about telling people the fact that you don't care about their not caring about this debate.

In the act of telling me that I care too much about telling people they care too much about this debate, you have exuded way too much care.

Hey, this is important stuff! ;)

You're obvious concern about him possibly not caring has shown that you do indeed care about him not caring and in effect, show that you might like the pole.

NFL playbooks: There's an app for that

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/tec...over-playbooks

If you watched “Hard Knocks” on HBO this summer, then you already know that the phrase “turn in your iPads” has started replacing “turn in your playbooks” when players are cut from an NFL team.

Want a competitive advantage? As NFL teams are discovering, there’s an app for that. Across the league, teams are trading in their 500-page printed playbooks for iPads.

In the last year alone, NFL teams using the iPad have quadrupled from three to 12, representing more than one-third of all teams. Those who make the switch are discovering that the technology goes far beyond the old playbook capabilities.

PlayerLync is at the forefront of the movement, and is currently being used by five NFL teams: the Denver Broncos, Green Bay Packers, Chicago Bears, Cincinnati Bengals and San Diego Chargers.

Those using PlayerLync report that it has revolutionized the way they push out film and significantly altered the way they communicate. The technology is such a leap forward that other teams are even considering making the iPad switch in midseason.

The Broncos were one of the early adopters of the technology. Since making the switch, team members, IT and video staff say they can’t imagine returning to the old way.

"It changes the way you prepare," says Broncos tight end Jacob Tamme. "You can come off the practice field, get in the cold tub and watch film in the cold tub on your iPad."

In addition to saving printing costs, digital playbooks like PlayerLync are increasing effective, real-time communication by allowing coaches and quarterbacks to add and share plays with the click of a button.

Every time new data, film or information is added, a banner alert pops up (like a text message), signaling players to view the updates.

And if they don’t log in? Coach could know, thanks to optional modules that can track when and how long a player views a play or file. There are also options that update calendars, ensuring the whole team remains on the schedule.

But the real benefit of PlayerLync might be with game film.

Prior to the app, in Denver, for example, sharing practice film was not so streamlined.

“They had to come in, sit down at a computer and look at video that way. Or they had to look at tape and they had to be at a big machine to look at that tape. Now, it’s right on the iPad,” says Russ Trainor, VP of IT for the Broncos.

Now, the film is literally in the palms of players’ hands immediately following practice. Say a team is playing on the road: Once the game ends and they’re headed home, the video teams can be uploading film while players’ apps are downloading it in the TSA line, ready for them to watch on the plane.

Mind you, you won't find PlayerLync alongside Doodle Jump or Bejeweled for 99 cents in Apple's App Store. It’s a private, “full-solution app,” according to Bob Paulsen, CEO and founder of PlayerLync.

Paulsen says that the idea for the app sprung from a conversation at a barbecue with a Broncos staff executive in late fall of 2011.

With a background in telecom -- Paulsen sold his previous business to Bill Gates -- he knew the right people who could make the app happen.

“You can’t create this kind of platform without the extensive background we have,” says Paulsen.

Still, that background didn’t prepare him for the app’s instant appeal. Paulsen says it wasn’t until late in the game that he had to make an outbound call to sell the app -- marketing was entirely done by word-of-mouth.

In fact, when the Broncos agreed to get on board with the platform, Paulsen had yet to set a price. “I asked them what they thought it would be worth,” says Paulsen. They came up with a price together.

Not long after, rather than keep the tech advantage to themselves, the Broncos actually helped spread the word to other teams.

“It was a day before the combine and we realized we needed a few minutes away from development and get our website up. The next day we were meeting with teams [at the combine], and they were quickly receptive to the solution,” says Paulsen.

And for security? No one wants an iPad-gate. NFL teams can feel safe using PlayerLinc. Without getting too nerdy, Paulsen says there are 10 layers of security. Given the data sensitivity, the apps are highly encrypted, and each iPad can be remotely wiped clean if, for example, a player loses his device or is traded to another team.

These days, everyone seems to want a piece of the PlayerLync founder: Both the Broncos and the Rockies have offered Paulsen on-site office space and he’s been approached by hockey, basketball and baseball teams that are interested in the app.

Why is it so popular? According to Paulsen, the reviews from players and coaches have been universally positive.

Broncos coach John Fox says PlayerLync is not just fast, it’s easy to use. “(The players) can download from afar and the turnover happens faster, so the production of our video, in particular, is much more efficient," says Fox. "Even us older guys are becoming more comfortable."

Denver quarterback Peyton Manning says the app makes it easier for the video guys to dispatch footage to different players, giving them no excuse not to study game film. And Chargers QB Philip Rivers appreciates the fact that the app allows for instant revisions -- if a route is changed, it can be immediately updated on the app without the need for printing out a new page and manually adding to a playbook.

And as of late, the app could get even more efficient. That is, if teams take advantage of the latest iteration of the iPad and the new iPad mini, both recently unveiled.

The new devices have double the Wi-Fi speed, which means pushing out game film and content event faster or having an even more portable device, via the smaller mini.

Will teams upgrade now, or wait for the next model?

Welcome to the consumer dilemma, NFL.

Chiefs still use a chalk board. Rookies have to clean the erasers.

You're assuming that they have a playbook.

LMAO

Costs $1300 for a 768 GB SSD upgrade on the new iMac. LMAO.

Never change, Apple.

Considering that a 512 gb SSD is still around $600 for a quality one, that doesn't seem to be TOO out of line, especially considering that all computer manufacturers have some amount of markup on things like that. The Intel 600gb SSD is $880 on Newegg.

You're also assuming that it would be some generic off the shelf SSD. We haven't seen the insides, but its likely that the chips are spread around the logic board like they get in the Air.

You're better off getting a Fusion drive anyway.

The RAM upgrade price is still predictably high. When I get mine next year ill be adding my own ram to get to that glorious 32GB capacity.

LMAO

It's ****ing absurd.

I can buy TWO 480 GB SSDs for $700 on Newegg. Installation is incredibly simple.

I'd much rather have that than ONE for $1300.

Apple continues to profit because their customers are morons.

Do you even read?

It's great that you think a hard drive is worth the price of an entire computer.

Right, but is there even room for two of those things in an iMac? And you know as well as anyone that incrementally larger single drives are much more expensive.

I'm not saying it's worth all $1300, but it's not absurdly out of line.

So.... AustinChief? Your time period on our bet is up. Apple's iPad market share currently sits at 53% according to IDC.

Are you ready to honor our bet?

http://boygeniusreport.files.wordpre...0-39-09-am.png

http://bgr.com/2012/12/05/tablet-market-share-2012/

Will have to wait until next month to get the final holiday sales since the bet is supposed to end Jan 1st. AND IDC is completely off by miles on that number. As I pointed out, they only count the major name brand tablets and pretty much ignore China and India and any "off brand" tablets here. I showed you numbers from 6 months ago(I think, maybe it was further back) that take into account the entire market space and iPad's were on their way to my 16% goal. All that being said, I have a sneaking feeling I won't hit the goal in time. My best guess is that once I take the time to find credible numbers, iPads will be in the 20-30% range. Microsoft let me down by being 6-8 months behind schedule and just generally sucking overall.

I'll find the time to look for credible numbers over the next month, but like I said, it looks like I will be one holiday season off on the bet, and you will be getting a tablet from me!

You have to admit, the trend is definitely there, I just may have been overly aggressive on my time estimate.


All of this doesn't mean I am conceding just yet! I haven't looked at any of the numbers in months so who knows.

Here is what a quick search resulted in this blurb from October...

That's more than the 48 million iPads estimated for 2012... so IDC has zero credibility with me on their numbers. As I pointed out when we made the bet, finding accurate numbers is going to be a compete bitch.

If we assume that IDC counts everything except white box tablets in China and India (a huge assumption that neither one of us should swallow, it could go either way) then without counting India (or Malaysia or whoever) at all you are looking at iPads holding somewhere around 34%. Not saying that number is at all correct, just showing that IDC has never been a reliable source for overall numbers, just more of a good place to watch trends.

I found a "2013 Global Tablet Forecast" article from Dec. 11th, from the same Digitimes source you quoted, that says:

That link has a metric shit ton of data, by the way. Holy shit... I thought we discussed tablets pretty thoroughly, but the info they have on there is absurd.

Let's revisit this after the new year, and go from there.

NOTE: I'm pretty sure the quoted snippet above has a type, and they mean Android will overtake iOS in 2013, instead of 2012.

So what exactly will be the deciding criteria? Numbers shipped? Numbers sold? Usage on the web?

Oh yeah...saw this last night. I have no idea how they pulled in the stats.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>First tweet from my new iPad/Surface/Kindle/Nexus! <a href="http://t.co/suoYzGQw" title="http://i.imgur.com/cg6O5.jpg">i.imgur.com/cg6O5.jpg</a></p>&mdash; Andy Baio (@waxpancake) <a href="https://twitter.com/waxpancake/status/283736105717755904" data-datetime="2012-12-26T00:48:53+00:00">December 26, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

They searched "first tweet ipad" or "first tweet nexus" etc

No they're not, they're iDiots. There is a difference.

I'm trying to think of something dumber than buying a quality product.

Go Turd is the biggest Moron on this board.

When you live in your parents basement the whole world is skewed.

It was a joke in reference to the "i" branding of devices, resulting in a quadrupled cost.

Did your hair move as it flew overhead?

Customers have downloaded 40 billion apps from Apple's App Store, with half of those coming in 2012.

Apple officially announce 128GB iPad



The new 128GB versions of the fourth generation iPad will be available starting Tuesday, February 5, in black or white, for a suggested retail price of $799 (US) for the iPad with Wi-Fi model and $929 (US) for the iPad with Wi-Fi + Cellular model


http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/29/a...128gb-for-799/

Yawn. Apple has become the Texarkanas of high end restaurants.

I can't believe people pay this much for that. WTF?

Apple could sell cocks for $1000

their target audience is the type that would have already bought a few of those, if you know what i mean

FISH!

The numbers are finally starting to come in for last year and it looks like the iPad took a huge dive in Q4 (compared to "other" tablets) but no clue how the numbers play out regarding our bet. I haven't had time to find accurate numbers much less to crunch them. IDC which (it appears) only tracks the big players and ignores white box completely had iPad at something like 38% so the real numbers are gonna be pretty close I think. My gut still tells me that I was a year too early and that iPad will pull around 20-25%.

If I do lose, I owe you one of these right?

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-cont...12/09/Meep.jpg

:D:D:D

Well every source I looked at showed the iPad firmly ahead. I'm pretty sure it's a done deal.

As far as what tablet. OMG does that come in green?

They are "ahead" as a single manufacturer for sure... but not "ahead" in the sense of dominating the market as they once did.

Here is the recent report I was citing.

And of course, again, this doesn't count the shadow market which is AT LEAST half of all Android tabs produced. And I don't think this counts Win 7/8 tablets either.. although I think it does count Win RT (all 5 of them that sold). Like I said, it's gonna be closer than the media would lead one to believe.

Hell yeah it does!

http://us.oregonscientific.com/ulima...EEPFROG_lg.jpg

Counting white box tablet sales is absurd, IMO. Especially now that respectable Android manufacturers have hit what I'd consider to be "white-box" price territory.

Also, I can't believe Samsung has 13% of the market! Have they ever even made a decent tablet before?

Except that was the entire premise of the bet from my perspective. I was comparing it to the PC market's expansion. If white box and other tablets were to be excluded I wouldn't have made the bet. Unfortunately it makes compiling accurate data on this hard as hell to do. I'll start to dig into the numbers soon though... the final reports for 2012 are just now coming in.

The Notes aren't half bad.. but they have a large share because they make like 30 different tabs just like they do with phones. They throw enough crap out there and some of it is bound to stick.

Again, that 13% is misleading.. it's probably closer to 5 or 6% when you factor in ALL tablets.

That's fine; I'm no party to the bet. But it's problematic, in my eyes. If I go to China and release a tablet based off of Android 2.3, but with ancient, crap hardware and no access to the Google ecosystem, how do you define that? To me, it's no longer an Android tablet. It's a tablet, based off of Android.

White box computers are completely different from tablets. With computers, you can throw together parts as cheaply as possible, throw on a copy of windows, and sell it to a consumer, and they're part of that ecosystem. With Android, it doesn't work that way.

There are two market share areas I find interesting:

-What ecosystem are people using (iOS, Google experience Android, Amazon Kindle, Windows (lol))?

-And within official Android, what is the market share of the manufacturers?

Beyond that, it's all white noise.

Well you are thinking that the bet was Android vs iOs.. it wasn't. It was ANYTHING and EVERYTHING (7" and above) vs iPad. I was actually counting on true Win 8 Pro tablets to hit the market 6 months earlier and make inroads with the enterprise. Obviously that didn't happen, stupid Microsoft.

Also, the White Box tablets have viable ecosystems and are almost all Android 4.0+. They aren't cutting edge but they certainly aren't all garbage either.

interesting to see what happens if you count tablets as PCs.

Market share isn't as important as profit share, in my opinion.

Well are you ready to concede good sir?

Which set of numbers did you all settle on?

Well?

I bought my son a google nexus for Christmas and that thing is awesome. I have an i-phone and have used the i-pads frequently but for 199.99 that thing is NAILS. I'd venture to say I prefer to the i-pad.

The only sources I have found for accurate numbers that include the shadow market cost big money to get a hold of. I haven't looked in a month though, feel free to put any out there you have. Nothing from IDC since we both know they only go by large brand name numbers. As I said from the onset, it's gonna be a bitch finding numbers. I'm still very confident it will be close regardless. I know the Chinese and even Indian sales of no names tabs ramped up again at the end of last year like they did the year before and Apple's only saving grace was the introduction of the mini otherwise the full size iPad appeared to hit a pretty substantial wall due to what I think is their natural saturation point. No idea really though, the numbers I showed you a LONG time ago came out a full 6 months after the previous year was over... well I'm sure they were out before but they were only FREELY available when I found them.

I'll have some time tomorrow to dig into it some more but if you have an accurate source feel free to throw it out there and I'll look.

Are they going to drop the price on Ipad 3 now?

So I'm thinking of jumping into the iPad pool....my question is, as a starter is there one that really stands above the others or are they all somewhat similar?

Found some cheap Gen 2's on Craiglist and was just curious outside of the retina display is there that big of a leap forward to the 3 or 4?

Thought about the Mini too but I kinda want something larger.

Thanks...

Older iPads are too slow now.

The Mini is awesome.

That is all.

I couldn't disagree more. It's not like you run Call of Duty or any other games requiring a high performance computer on an iPad. Most people use an iPad to surf the Internet, to read and write email, to read e-books, and to watch movies on Netflix. The older iPads work just fine for this. I have an iPad 2, and it does all of those things perfectly.

What exactly are you doing that would be "too slow" on an older iPad?

I recently bought iPad 2 tablets for my son and daughter. They were brand new in their original packaging, and they were a helluva lot cheaper than the brand new versions.

iPad 2s are great. I still haven't upgraded mine to iOS 7 though. I'm afraid it might slow it down.
Posted via Mobile Device

Launching apps takes a lot longer on older iPads than the newer ones. They also have to relaunch the app more often as you switch between them.

It's very noticeable if you use an older one after using a newer one.

Some of the replies on the first few pages are priceless in hindsight. LMAO

OS 7 runs fine on my iPad2.

Same here. It did hork Airplay on my XBMC box, though. :cuss:

Does that mean it won't work or does that mean you just haven't figured out how to do it yet? If it's the former, what iPad version would you need for it to work?

From what I can gather, iOS 7 broke it. Anything before that is fine. Mind you, this is only with XBMC boxes, not with Apple TV. I imagine a fix will be forthcoming.

ROFL

Why would you go with an iPad 2 when you could get a Kindle Fire HDX for the same price? The new Kindle blows away EVERY version of the iPad including the newest iPad Air.

It doesn't make much sense to wait this long and then pull the trigger on the clear loser in the tablet market share space. You looking to replace your cell phone with a new blackberry as well? :D

^ Except the processor. They're about the same.

I like the Kindle Fire HDX a lot. Do you still have to uninstall Amazon's interface to really use it? I honestly don't know, as I haven't looked at Kindles in a while.

It all stems from a conversation I had with a co-worker...at the time didn't know a lot about tablets and such.

Here the past few days, really have got into it and researched and yeah I wouldn't get an iPad 2...I'm going to get the iPad Air I think.

You realize you are going to pay an extra $100 for an inferior product right? Unless you are completely committed to the Apple ecosystem, it makes little to no sense to buy an iPad air over a Kindle HDX.

I recently switched from a Nexus 7 to a 3rd gen iPad. I upgraded the wife from the original iPad to the 4th gen.

Even though I've been all android for a while now I was sold on the screen dimensions. With all of the other tablets everything seems out of whack. Portrait mode isn't wide enough when reading most sites/apps and landscape mode is awkward in the other direction. 4x3 seems to be ideal for tablets while the iPhone is flat out reeruned with regards to phone dimensions.

I've also owned a Kindle Fire. The interface is build for ham fisted mongoloids. I'm not buying something that I have to mod 1 hour after it arrives so that it's usable.