As a lifelong comics fan and someone who still reads 15-20 books a month, I can't believe there is this much affection for The Mandarin. He's dated and vaguely racist, and really only achieves his position of prominence because Iron Man has a shallow rogues gallery. People have been trying to fix him for the past 20 years. I don't see this as something like X-Men 3, where they wasted the the greatest X-Men story ever. I mean, what is the great Mandarin story? What about the character makes him Iron Man's best villain? It's not like we're talking about Magneto, Lex Luthor, or the Joker here.

As someone who stopped reading comic books about 20 years ago, I have no idea what "trying to fix him" means. Iron Man was never one of my favorites, but the Mandarin was one of the few villains I remember. Regardless of how he got his prominence, he is still a prime adversary.

Before seeing this I had very low expectations of the portrayal of the Silver Samurai coming up, now I have even lower. Silver Samurai is no Mandarin, but he's a character story I absolutely loved in the first solo volume of Wolverine. If Iron Man were my Wolverine, and they expected a Jackie Chan style performance (who I love BTW) for Silver Samurai, I'd never watch another movie in the series again.

It's not just about the character and how PC they are, it's about our memories of them in certain times of our lives. I'd hate to read some 50's and 60's sci-fi all PC'd up. Hell, next you'll want to remake Star Trek and have a sober Scotty or chivalrous Kirk. I'm worried enough about how there going to ruin Kahn!

If a character is "dated and vaguely racist", then create a new one. Or if you must update him for the times, do so. Don't rewrite him into something completely different. He may not be the Joker, but he sure is a hell of a lot better than the Penguin (or at least he was).

I agree with this here. I was a huge fan of the movie but it had absolutely nothing to do with the Mandarin portrayal. Dude is a low-tier villain in my eyes. I could probably name 20 more prominent villains in Marvel alone off the top of my head..

The Penguin (the comics gentleman gangster version, not the movies sewer mutant) is a much better villain than the Mandarin. Anyway, it's not about political correctness, it's about the fact that in 2013 this:
http://i.imgur.com/GD26XG5.jpg

is ****ing ridiculous. And yes, lots of comics from the 60s look ridiculous now, and most if not all of the characters that are still around have been reconceptualized for modern audiences. The way you do that is you take the essential core of the character, the thing that makes them interesting in the first place, and you build off it. The problem is that the Mandarin doesn't really have the core. That's what I meant when I said people have been trying to fix him for the past 20 years, comics writers and artists have been trying to come up with a working modern take. And, as far as I'm concerned at least, none of them have really succeeded. The Mandarin's most compelling trait continues to be the fact that he's Iron Man's archenemy. Why is he Iron Man's archenemy? No reason, he just is.

And I think that's why they used him they way they did in the movie, because his status in the minds of the fans makes the twist work. I actually really liked Ben Kingsley's performance and thought that their take on the Mandarin worked pretty well as an update of the character. But when I ask myself, would I have liked the movie better if they had just done the Mandarin as another straightforward terrorist, I don't think I would have. Killian isn't a perfect villain (his motivations could have been better thought out, for one thing) but I appreciate the genuinely surprising twist and the attempt at something different.

Basically I think a lot of the disappointment comes from a place of ignorance. I don't mean this as a dig against you or even anyone in this thread in particular, but I think a lot of people who follow this stuff casually knew the Mandarin was considered Iron Man's archenemy, but didn't actually know anything about him. They're upset because they think a great character was wasted, but they don't realize how little meat was on those bones to begin with.

Yes. All comics in the 60s look silly.
This is the Mandarin.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps5061824a.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4a441211.jpg
Why is he IM's arch rival? WTF?? He is without a doubt the greatest foe IM ever had, and kicked his ass more than once.
If you are having a hard time figuring out just who is, which it seems like you are, here ya go.

Born circa 1920, the future Mandarin was raised by his embittered aunt following his parents’ deaths, and as an adult he used his brilliance and family wealth to attain prominence in the Kuomintang Party’s reign over China. The Communist Revolution of 1949 cost him his position and power, although the population he had once commanded still regarded him with nigh-mystic awe. After years of seeking some means of regaining greatness, he ventured into the mysterious Valley of Spirits, where he discovered the millennia-old wreckage of a starship of the reptilian Kakaranatharian, or Makluan, extraterrestrial race, and the ten mighty rings which had powered the vessel. Unaware that the Makluans themselves remained at large, posing as humans, the Mandarin spent decades mastering Makluan technology, then several years more conquering the valley’s adjacent villages and establishing a network both of citadels and of loyal followers such as Po, Yu, and Li Fong. His long-range goal was to conquer China, and then the world, which he claimed he would rule with the “wisdom and harmony” of his nobleman ancestors. During these years he fathered a son, Temujin, whom he sequestered in a remote monastery, and took the girl later known as Madam Macabre as a student; another girl, Mei-Ling, became betrothed to marry him in adulthood. He also discovered the dormant alien robot Ultimo within a volcano, and worked for years to revive him using a combination of science and magic.

In recent years, seeking assistance to master the Makluan rings’ full power, the Mandarin became the patron of the Sin-Cong revolutionary Wong Chu, who abducted the Chinese genius Ho Yinsen and American industrialist Tony Stark. However, Yinsen sacrificed his life to enable Stark to escape and overwhelm Wong Chu’s forces using his first Iron Man armor. After disciplining Wong Chu for his failure, the Mandarin had the opportunity to stop Iron Man from departing but, intrigued, allowed him to pass unhindered, little realizing the armored hero would become his most persistent nemesis.

Several months later, Iron Man visited China to investigate the Mandarin for the U.S. government. Using the rings and his own combat skills, the Mandarin nearly defeated Iron Man, who nonetheless outwitted him and escaped. Soon after, the pair again clashed when the Mandarin pulled Stark surveillance missiles from the sky to use for his own purposes, then manipulated the Chinese government into test-firing a missile which, unknown to them, was intended to trigger world war, but Iron Man defeated him both times. Affected by Doctor Doom’s Emotion Charger, the Mandarin next joined many other super-villains in attacking the Fantastic Four’s Richards-Storm wedding; later, he recruited the Swordman, whose sword he equipped with greater technological weaponry, to serve as his spy within the Avengers, but the Swordsman ultimately balked at destroying the Avengers and betrayed him.

Finally activating Ultimo, the gloating Mandarin teleported Stark to his citadel to observe the supposed triumph, but Iron Man lured the giant back into the volcano, temporarily imprisoning him. Later, Iron Man again prevented his foe from provoking world war with a second missile scheme. Reactivating Ultimo and rehiring the Swordsman, along with Living Laser, Power Man (later Atlas of the Thunderbolts), Enchantress, and the Executioner, the Mandarin launched an effort to empower a world-wide hate-ray, only to be foiled by the Avengers. He next mentally controlled the Hulk and used him to wreak havoc, thinking each nation would blame the other for the behemoth’s attacks, but his control was disrupted by Nick Fury and Yuri Brevlov of S.H.I.E.L.D. Undaunted, the Mandarin, now accompanied by the adult Mei-Ling, used a Hulk robot to abduct Stark’s lover Janice Cord while framing Stark himself for enemy conspiracy, but Mei-Ling, touched by Cord’s love for Stark and disillusioned by the Mandarin’s cruelty, sacrificed her life helping Iron Man defeat him. A second attempt to control the Hulk with the help of the Sandman also failed, as did efforts to foment unrest by abducting peacemaker Dr. Robert Hoskins, who was rescued by Captain America.

Hoping to enhance his rings’ already phenomenal power, the Mandarin manipulated the Royal Family of Inhumans into obtaining the mystic Eye of Yin, created centuries ago by Makluan-trained sorcerers, but he was overpowered by Black Bolt, who absconded with his rings. After allying himself with the former Russian super-operative Unicorn, the Mandarin regained the rings via a Makluan headband device and returned his attention to Tony Stark. In the identity of Gene Kahn, he stirred unrest among Stark’s employees, then, when exposed, fought Iron Man alongside the Unicorn. However, careless use of the headband inadvertently switched the Mandarin’s consciousness with that of the terminally ill Unicorn, and he quickly abandoned the fight to rectify the situation. Adding insult to injury, he discovered that a rival mastermind, the Yellow Claw, had, at the prodding of the extradimensional Black Lama, seized his current base, one of his Chinese castles, in his absence. Retiring to an underwater base, the Mandarin captured Sunfire and forced him to power the machinery that restored him to his rightful body, but even with Ultimo’s aid, regaining his castle was not so simple. Iron Man and Sunfire intervened in the conflict, which ended with the Mandarin seemingly slain by the Yellow Claw’s robot surrogate, the Makluan rings claimed by the Claw’s servant Loc Do.

However, the Mandarin’s new control of his consciousness enabled him to transfer his intellect into the rings themselves, and he remade Loc Do’s body into a younger version of his own. Despite his new body, his customary schemes to foment world war were once more thwarted by Iron Man. Efforts to obtain Wakanda’s Vibranium via the resurrected Killmonger proved no more successful, and his attempt to destroy China’s rice crops, intended to drive the Chinese government into invading other nations, was disrupted by an alternate Iron Man (Stark’s temporary replacement Jim Rhodes). Later, while experimenting with his rings, the Mandarin was rendered comatose; although he recovered physically, he was left amnesiac when elderly Chen Hsu, the millennia-old captain of the disguised Makulans, stole and replaced one of his rings, still tied to his consciousness and thus necessary to restore his memory fully. As Zhang Tong, the Mandarin, still driven by a need for conquest, became a criminal overlord in Hong Kong, allowing ten underlings to use his rings as his operatives in the so-called Hand. Having no memory of his grudge against Stark, he sought to force a business alliance but was again foiled by Iron Man, who nonetheless found himself unable to interfere with his opponent’s criminal network. Soon afterward, the Mandarin joined several other masterminds in the so-called “Acts of Vengeance” anti-superhero conspiracy, then allied with Matsuo Tsurayaba of the ninja Hand, but these endeavors were disrupted by the Avengers and the X-Men, and subsequent worldwide attacks on crime prevention specialists were ended by Nick Fury’s intervention.

Eventually recognizing Chen Hsu’s theft, the Mandarin confronted the old man, who returned both his ring and his memory, then guided him in commanding the gigantic Makluan dragon Fin Fang Foom, with whom the Mandarin soon seized control of one-third of his native land. Tony Stark and James Rhodes, both armored as Iron Man, intervened, but the Mandarin turned against Hsu and Foom upon learning that the Makluans wanted to rule Earth themselves; with Stark channeling his own armor’s power through the rings, the Mandarin seemingly destroyed the Makluans, but his hands were burned off in the process. Eventually recovering, he grew new reptilian hands and recovered his rings, then discovered the Thuviskaroth of Cataphylaxis, a.k.a. the Heart of Darkness, a centuries-old talisman of cosmic evil. Forced through a psychological gauntlet in which he overcame personifications of his earlier schemes, he emerged near-mad with supernatural power and, in a departure from his usual methods, mystically reverted China to its medieval state, supposedly saving the world from the corruption of the technology he had commanded so long, with the assistance of the superhuman Avatars. While War Machine (Jim Rhodes) and Force Works fought the Avatars, Iron Man penetrated the Mandarin’s defenses and infected him with a techno-organic virus, nullifying his Heart’s mystic bond and again rendering him amnesiac as the janitor Chu.

Regaining his identity, the Mandarin rebuilt his power base once more, clashing with Squirrel Girl and using the Espionage Elite, the Dreadnoughts, and others to undermine Stark, whom he now knew to be Iron Man and of whose capabilities he was unsure following the hero’s revival from the Onslaught crisis. Aboard his immense aircraft, the Dragon of Heaven, the Mandarin invaded Russia using a mercenary army fought by the Avengers and Winter Guard, but this was merely a pretext to lure Iron Man into action and better test him in battle. Although satisfied Iron Man indeed remained a worthy adversary, the knowledge seemed to do the Mandarin little good when Iron Man destroyed the Dragon of Heaven’s power source, toppling it from the sky. The Mandarin was seemingly slain in the disaster, but this may be only the latest of the many seeming deaths from which he has returned.


More on Marvel.com: http://marvel.com/universe/Mandarin#ixzz2SxJa6nyw


FTR. I don't read comics anymore. Haven't for years, but loved them as a kid, and have read a ton of stuff about my favorite characters since the first X-men came out. Love the Marvel universe.

This has been the problem with Marvel since they started their "Ultimates" line years ago. Now Marvel is trying to mix Ultimates versions of characters and their "Normal" history and current versions.

I liked the original cigar smoking Nick Fury better...

I enjoyed the hell out of this. I wouldn't say that they "completely shit on the mandarin," since Killian obviously says "I am the Mandarin." Different from the comics, but whatever. The character is there to tap into again if they need to.

If you're going to compare this to X-Men 3 or Spider Man 3 and how terrible they were...you need to force yourself to watch those two movies again.

RDJs huge payday came because the execs had low expectations of the first Iron Man movie so he wrote himself in a nice clause about a percentage of the character. Nobody else would be able to do that at this point...certainly that high of a percentage.

Maybe Mandarin comes back in Avengers 2 with his rings.....

After reading some descriptions of the Mandarin's past I think it would have been pretty simple to update the character. He could have been an ultra wealthy businessman from China if they wanted to keep that going. Basically he could have been the Chinese alter ego of Tony Stark. Rich and brilliant, but headed down the villain path to gain power. The alien rings are no longer far fetched given the Avengers Movie was packed with them and living gods.

AIM could have been retained in a similar capacity, only this time playing as the puppet for the Mandarin. The human bomb aspect could have been kept as well, only I would leave it there, no regenerative aspects, except that it is a failed attempt at regenerating human body parts.

However, I believe Marvel/Disney would never go down this path (chinese villain) because they are trying to make money in China. Even if only 5% of the population goes to see the movie, that is still over 50,000,000 tickets sold.

Marvel filmed some scenes in China specifically for that audience. It only shows up in the screenings in that country. I'm curious what the footage is? Hopefully it shows up on the blue ray.

Watched it with the wife last night. Never read the comics, but a little disappointed with The Mandarin. Just seemed like a waste of a fantastic actor and the setup of an amazing villain. And didn't really care for the Extremis line at all, very comic booky while none of the other movies (except The Avengers) has had that vibe. I would have liked that story line better minus the regeneration part, maybe just the human bomb part. I enjoyed the movie, but I'm still not sure how I like it in the context of the other two.

Well, Marvel has already successfully established the more outrageous "otherworldly" elements with the Avengers stuff. It wasn't hard for me to go with it. I'm an unabashed lover of this film. My fave of the three. Admittedly Marvel did pull a huge bait and switch with the Manderin. But didn't bother me because im not much of a comic fanboy/purist.

omg a comic book movie had a comic booky story line

When two-thirds of the other films have not included that kind of element, it can be tough to accept.

I didn't understand the banter between Stark and Banner post credits. It was funny, but what was the point? Just a setup to Avengers 2?