It's his ENTIRE scheme...

:hmmm:

All the more reason to draft a quarterback because Alex Smith is holding this team back (fact not fiction). Good post TigerUppercut for coming to the light. All we needed was a quarterback to play at a higher level you are correct.

You ever look at gronks YAC??

Doubt that highly. Alex isn't leading the league in any yardage metric. He doesn't even throw an accurate ball that allows for a ton of RAC anyway.

Now, he may lead the league in percentage of passing yards as RAC. I'd bet on either him or Bradford.

You're an epic dipshit.

"Guy".

Not seeing much of his YAC in the playoffs...

Kelce is the best YAC TE in the NFL and I'd imagine Hill had ridiculous YPC number.

The entire schem is YAC, which is why a cheaper QB could do the job.

Kelce is 3rd in the league at YAC.

1,125 yards.
653 of it is YAC.


Let's see if I can figure this out for Smith.

YAC yards

Kelce - 653
Ware - 394
Hill - 288
West - 205
Conley - 161
Wilson - 157
Maclin - 139
Harris - 44

Smith - 3502 yards.
From YAC - 2041

58% of his yards are from YAC.

We at least need someone who is willing to take the shots that Alex won't. I can live with his timid approach to a point but when he bails on a clean pocket with open guys down the field just to throw it away or check it down, it's maddening. Not to mention how in the blue **** do you get a delay of game on third down AT HOME in a divisional playoff game. Just a bag full of shit that any 11 year pro should not be doing. Some of those games we lost (red zone int's and missing open guys) would be more acceptable from a rookie. If we're getting rookie play, we may as well be giving rookie pay.

/thread

This same offense was run by Young, Favre, Montana, and Rodgers.

They all had no problems seeing the deep man and hitting them when they were open.

Exactly.

Smith is in no way comparable to any of the QB's above...

I like Dorsey and Reid just fine.

Alex Smith definitely regressed this year.

It's easy to look around and find one stat he did better in and keep pointing it out.

Sometimes Tigger doesn't realize when he's leading with his chin.

Dude actually stepped in his own trap.

Of course YAC is important in this scheme and that's exactly why Alex Smith really isn't. It's exactly why the Chiefs would've been equally effective with Trevor Siemien under center and exactly why they could bring in a fairly limited but much cheaper QB to operate this offense and use the money to upgrade elsewhere.

Reid runs a QB friendly system so why do we need to spend $18 million to retain a QB who can barely clear such a low bar?

Alternatively, they could bring in a more talented, more aggressive passer and actually open the system up a bit, as Reid has shown a willingness to do with guys like Vick in the past. The excuse before this season was that Smith never had a 'throw it up and let him run under it' player like DeSean Jackson. Well he damn sure does now and yet we still didn't open up the offense.

If the Chiefs had a guy that was willing to take shots downfield, Andy would call them more. And with a receiver like Hill showing elite speed and premium ball-tracking skills, they'd hit.

I think Reid will move on sooner rather than later.

Less tds more ints, lower average, lower rating


But he didn't regress?

He specifically stated he wasn't wishing for it.

He was not productive.

Period...

Prove it

Do you need proof of his birthday?...

ROFL no. I want him to prove the other part of his post

:spock:

In today's 'exercise in selection bias' you'll see that quarterbacks in their mid/late 30s tend to play fairly well.

And why? Because quarterbacks that are still playing in their mid/late 30s tended to be absolute badasses in their late 20s and early 30s. That's why they're still around and getting paid big-money veteran contracts as they've aged out of their physical primes.

The mediocre placeholders? Those guys are gone by 35 and why the samples for quarterbacks in their late 30s are going to be pretty good.

This is going to be an outstanding example of selection bias.

ROFL
I can already hear the crickets chirping.

That most veterans peak in their MID thirties.

I'm not buying it.

Also you Know a guy named Ron Anderson? Maybe work with him?

He's just going to pull QB efficiency or QBR out as a stat. Nevermind that his TDs are going down and his INTs are going up.

That was going to be my point when he posted the examples. ROFL

No one peaks after 33.

Other than Royce Gracie, who sucked down and shot up MASSIVE amounts of steroids just to beat the one man that disgraced him.

And I'll assume that's not allowed in this discussion...

Sorry - old debate training. You have your response to their response all queued up before you even ask the question.

It's like tennis, if you don't know where they're going with the return on your serve, you've probably ****ed up.

Chirp chirp chirp........Come on tigger, entertain us.

ROFL

Oh my bad. I read the post too quickly.

Alex Smith never once scored 20+ TDs in his time in San Fran. So his peak would be 2013 with 23 TD. I think we were a better team this year than 2013 so really no excuses the O-line has improved and he has weapons to throw too like the fastest player in the NFL but he over looks him.

Alex Smith is in the decline. Fact not Fiction.

Hands down the most ignorant folk. Kinda like the time you all said Weddle sucks

Agreed.. though even I will be fairly mad if they don't address the QB2 spot with some real talent.

Just has to be done.. so I'm not overly worried that it won't be done. I mean, between the Smith injuries/age, and having jackshit nothing behind him... it has to be.

Outside looking in: I saw your Safety win more games for you this year than your QB.

DJ... I don't want to have to search for it, so hopefully you will admit and explain this.

About a week before the PIT game, you made a great post about how Alex Smith is and was Alex Smith. He would be the same guy before and after this one game... and this game would not define him.. whether great or poor performance.

Will you admit to stating this?

Because if so... then you were content.. maybe not thrilled.. but content with Alex as a starter.. and defended him many times before this game.

.. but it sure feels like you stated what you did pre-game.. and now have thoroughly became that which you so frequently fought against... because of that one game.

I mean, I kinda thought the bolded part said it all...

uh, I'm pretty sure that's been the case for this team for a long time, it was just much more glaring this year. how many times has our defense won more games for us than our QB the last 50 years? it's kinda overwhelming.

Glad you are calling him out too. He's definitely flop flipping

Not really meaning to, but yeah..

To specifically post that this one game can't and won't define him... and then to have it define him.. welp.. Just kind of makes you wonder if it's just an example (as for many here) that they are knee-jerk reactions to a painful loss.

Actually this is incorrect. I believe it was Derek Carr. Seriously.

It's not so much a knee-jerk reaction to one painful loss. It's a knee-jerk reaction to 40 years of loss.

You nor TigerUppers just don't understand our flustrations and you two don't even try to understand.

CP, how two mouth-running non-fan alexsexuals are allowed to run free on your board i do not understand.

That kaepernick poster warned everyone, too. It's inexcusable.

I did say exactly that.

But I came to the conclusion that the team around him has to play too well after watching that game and started thinking about combined probabilities.

To get to a SB would require one of 2 things - enough wins to only need 2 playoff Ws or 3 playoff Ws.

Now even assuming that we manage the first thing (which is a hell of a high bar anymore and took some incredibly timely playmaking/turnovers that simply don't show year to year repeatability), that's still 2 wins that you need in January to advance to the SB.

And with Smith's style of game, the Chiefs simply have to play virtually mistake-free football to win both of those games. Now there's a chance; maybe 70% even, that they can do that once. But they'd have to do it twice and the laws of combined probability say that there's less than a 50% chance of them pulling that trick.

It isn't that I changed my mind on Smith as much as I changed my mind on football in general. Smith is still an adequate QB (and I've said it many times in the Mellinger thread; guy's a credible QB that can help many teams and in fact helped this one get here). But to win with him you need a team that's going to play extremely well around him and the odds of doing that frequently enough to get a top 2 seed or doing so three times in January are just very long. The margins between success and failure in a parity driven league are too tight to expect that your other 52 guys are going to win their battles handily in successive weeks.

Smith leading a conference championship team is simply a bad mathematical bet. And why I've focused on that single play so much is because it's a perfectly distilled image of what makes Smith incapable of pulling his team past those mistakes. All he needed to do was make one play on a night that his team simply didn't have it - he didn't make it and that's a play that shows perfectly why (and could've easily been that one play).

A championship team needs to have a QB that can save them, maybe only once, on a night in January where they're just spinning their wheels a bit. The Chiefs don't have that QB; they have the same credible, middle of the road guy that Smith has always been.

I'm no longer convinced that the odds are good enough with him under center to justify not making a change.

He's not calling me out, half-wit.

That's an invitation for discourse and not something I've ever shied away from. Stop bringing knives to intellectual gunfights and perhaps someday you can make the same claim.

Guess what I don't understand is the lack of separation between :


- years of suffering

and

- having those years of suffering warp your thinking on reality.

I can understand hurting, and being angry that this or that guy didn't do more to win. What I don't understand is taking that feeling.. weeks after the jolt of the loss... and allowing it to evolve into a huge, hyperbolic stew of misguided condemnation.

I don't think he has the patience to develop a qb anymore and smith was a safer choice than a rookie.

Hitler believed in censorship. So does Kim Jong Un

Here is more objective data... Running backs rushed for half as many touchdowns as last year. But it's Alexs fault.

#FNF

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results / Albert Einstein


The flustrating part has been wanting a change in approach on how to get to the Super Bowl because doing the same we have done throughout the Carl Peterson era is freaking insane .

Sorry to condense, but trying to cut to the heart of it.

See, this feels like hyperbole to me. I don't think "the team needs to play extremely well" for the desired results. They just need to not suck.

We can give the defense its pass... just on points allowed alone. We can disregard that they tore us up on the ground for 171 yds and a 5.7 avr. We can overlook the 191 yards from Brown and some TE named Jesse James. We can overlook the disparity of offensive plays 66-49, and overwhelming TOP of 34/25.

What did it come down to?

a 14 play, 75 yard TD drive... and a 2 point conversion that was successful... until it wasn't.

Am I saying Smith had a great game? absolutely not. But did the pass pro, run blocking, or ANY other aspect of the KC team play well? Nope. Add in the two (or five) critical dropped passes.

.. and they STILL were right there in the end.. on Smith's arm.. a tied game.. until it wasn't.

This whole mantra of "he needs everything around him to be perfect to win" is absurd exaggeration. He just needs others not to suck. Only few QBs in the league (if even them) can overcome a team that plays that poorly in so many facets.

I think everyone has a right to make :moon::o) out of themselves on Chiefs Planet carry on TU & SC doing a good job.

u really feel that's what I am doing?

u have a differing opinion on a football related matter, so you come at me with this... and that means I am making an ass of myself?

:facepalm:

And yet we ran into the same problem in NE last year. And in Indy the playoffs prior.

And let me be clear - in neither of those losses am I blaming Smith, in fact Smith played his ass off in that Indy game. But there were plays to be made in both that could've advanced the Chiefs and Smith didn't make them. Nor do I think it's likely that he'll ever actually make them. You keep saying that the team around him has to just 'not suck' yet here we sit for a 3rd time in 3 playoff years with a team that lost because it sucked. I suspect it's because pretty much every playoff team has a bad game and for the championship teams, their QB can pull them from the fire. And like I said - I don't expect it every post-season game, but I think asking for a QB that can give you a mulligan, if only one, isn't asking too much.

In 3 games where he's been within a score of moving forward, he hasn't. And in the one game where he did, it was an unholy massacre. Smith had 3 opportunities to provide his teammates a mulligan and he managed zero. And I firmly believe that had he gotten either this year's squad or last year's into the AFC championship game, they'd have won it. But he just couldn't get them that second bite at an apple. In win or go home situations, you desperately need someone under center that can at least occasionally provide that and I don't think Smith is that guy.

It's the whole 'a brick is not a wall' concept - add enough bricks and it's a wall you end up with. Smith's now 0-3 in one-score playoff games in KC and that's extremely disconcerting. As is the fact that he's getting older and isn't advancing in terms of how he operates the offense. If anything, the version of the offense we ran this season was simpler than anything we ran in years past.

I don't need a reason to fire Smith - I need a reason to keep him (or at least not actively explore alternatives). That margin is never going to be terribly broad for a 'game manager' with no real post-season achievements on his resume as it is. I have enough bricks for my tastes and I think it's time that we find someone else.

Smith hasn't been consistent all year long. He gives maybe a good quarter or two but does not give four quarters of good football. He lags like jet lag.

The Jets game actually came to mind. 8 turnovers and two of them went back for touchdowns but we could only muster 24 points for the game? Why wouldn't Alex Smith be able to produce more points off of turnovers that game? We should have had 30+ points.

I believe those concussions in Colts game did hurt Alex Smith and he won't be getting any better after them. Any more hits like that or off the turf he will have scrambled eggs for brains.

We were actually fortunate to win a lot of these close games the defense kept us in them and we found ways to win them but for the most part we had a lot of losable games because this offense keeps teams in it. I'm happy for the wins but accepting mediocrity isn't my thing and Alex Smith is a mediocre to ok quarterback at times quarterback. Nothing special about him.

Serious, and I hope something that goes to the heart of this issue, DJ [since you're presently the one espousing the 'needs a perfect team' line], do you think that anyone who moved on at any point in the playoffs this year put out an INFERIOR TEAM EFFORT to the Chiefs against Pitt, only to be salvaged by superior QB play?

Thats the thing, Smith won lose you games, but he will very rarely win you games. He will very very rarely take a game over with his arm. I learned quite a few years back, that in order to win a Superbowl without and Elite QB you have to have an insane defense and have absolutely everything go your way. If they do not happen, you are ****ed. Elite QB's have so much more room for error.

We have seen this over and over and over being a Chiefs fan.

Alex Smith basically lost the Tampa and Tennessee games with horrific end zone INT's.

I might add, I'm getting more confused than ever.

At one point, we had the ridiculous notion that the Chiefs should just ignore everything save a dogged effort to unearth the next Brady. Rummage through the QB pile like looking for a super battery in a pile of batteries, until we find one who simply can't lose, ever. Pay him to play here forever and assemble the rest of the team from scraps

Now, we're developing this 'well if Alex is mediocre. Why not be mediocre for cheap?' Just go out and round up journeymen and find someone who isn't too big a **** up who will play for peanuts. That way we can build a 'great' team by paying big bucks for talent at other positions.

These seem to be completely inapposite positions, sharing only the DNA of being tired of not having a QB carousel of home grown candidates.

I myself am not all that put out that Alex makes decent starting veteran money. I'm always on the prowl for the next big thing, and always amenable to someone who can legit unseat him. But until then, this teeth gnashing about the QB position, wishy-washy about an alternative strategy seems like just so many world-weary soldiers with plenty of gripes, but without a solution.

Having not watched the entire Packers game but seeing only parts of it, from what I watched, the Packers played as poorly against Dallas as the Chiefs played against Pittsburgh, yes.

And Rodgers pretty much pulled them from the fire. He gave them their second chance and they squandered it by playing poorly again.

But again, how long before it becomes a trend? Because like I said, that's 3 straight 1-score games where the answer has been the same "well his teammates just didn't play well enough". Okay, but it was a 1 score game and there's a single guy on the field that could've made a big impact there - and all three times he didn't.

You ask why I should believe that he will fail the next time and my question to you is why do you believe he'll succeed? Because THAT'S what I need. If you're going to commit to an aging QB that's now 0/3 in his opportunities to step up big for his teammates in KC, what do you base that on but blind faith? Or is it just fear of a worse alternative?

An Ass Clown yes.



I get that your opinions are different than mine I welcome different opinions but the way you two go on about Alex Smith being so great is ridiculous at best.

No one is buying that he is that good to get us to hold a Lamar Trophy and winning a Vince Lombardi Trophy. That's what we want.

Why do you believe them to be mutually exclusive in a cap league? Of course they're related.

Option A) Get baller-ass QB, increase your margin for error when your team plays a C- game so you can survive and advance in the hopes that the next game is at least a B+ game.

Option B) Get game-manager QB at cheaper price, allocate funds to the rest of the roster to at least improve the odds of having a B- game and being good enough to survive.

They're not inapposite; they're alternative pleadings - I prefer A but if I can't have A, let's try B.

Doesn't seem that complicated to me.

Perfect description of the Alex Smith Apologists.

Babbly Lee thinks drafting the Matt Blundins, Steve Matthews, Steve Stenstroms, Pat Barnes, James Killians, Brodie Croyles, Ricky Stanzis, Aaron Murrays and Kevin Hogans of the draft is the best option.

Can't risk picks on a QB when you need the rest of the roster to be perfect to make up for the weaknesses of a retread QB.

Well at least we can agree on two things:

1. winning is happy
2. Chiefs desperately NEED a QBotF on the roster by May.

I don't think Smith is a special talent or irreplaceable either, but I do think people prefer to overlook other glaring team deficiencies by focusing too much blame on him.

Well by all means, go ahead. Just save the befuddlement of why Dorsey and Reid keep trotting him out there. You know why.. you just don't want to accept that your focus is misplaced.

The Chiefs... as they were.. were not a team that had it all going on, minus a QB.

Maaaaaaaaybe... they were a team that had enough going on, for an elite QB... but that's a stretch.

Team is still one of the top 5 of the AFC. Just needs major work/luck on... above all... staying healthy. Next up is loosening up on the conservative/sideways offense... FORCE this QB to take the shots OR ELSE... then, fix the dropped passes.. then fix the run blocking.

... and someone teach Fisher how to block 50 yr old pass rushers.

My point is that, Dorsey assembled a team within the cap that was competitive across the board sufficient to win in the playoffs. Outside the 2ndary which wasn't tested [Raper played an ABYSMAL game], they collectively laid an egg in the one game that mattered.

It's rough, and it's rougher given our history. But this past loss was not a continuation of 40 years of the same thing. It was a much better team than we've had in the past having a collective off day at the worst possible time.

I hoped that they got it out of their system with the Titans game, but there was a hangover from that that bit them in the ass.

Alex has nothing to do with Grbac, Bono, Kreig, DeBerg, etc. Certainly nothing to do with Croyle, Cassel, Palko or Thigpen.

A year or two in the NFL can be a lifetime. Despite what we feel as fans, correlations don't survive for generations.

Heck, Romo [and the entire Cowboys org] has as much heartache over the past 20 years in the playoffs as we do, and people are looking to him as a surefire savior even as he enters his Levitra years.

They're no Rich Scanlon, I'll give you that

12-4

6-0 in division

Led league in dropped passes

Alex Smith Sucks !

**** you, **** you, and GO **** YOURSELF.

I've repeatedly said entirely the opposite. But you're too much of a pussy to actually argue what I DO SAY. Much more convenient to make up a ridiculous position and ridicule that, despite the utter lack of integrity.

The only differentiation is I trust the scouting efforts of Dorsey's admin over the dartboard genius of CP. If he finds what he likes, I'm completely on board with him moving heaven and earth [and Berry, Poe, Houston and Kelce, if he thinks it necessary] to obtain him.

You ought to be out on the Million Vagina March with that shit.

The Bears had an insane defense as you speak of and were spotted 7 points from kick off with Devin Hester return for a touchdown but Peyton Manning picked that defense apart. Didn't help the Bears that Rex Grossman stepped on their own nuts but Peyton Manning still won the Colts that Super Bowl.

It's not a continuation of 40 years of the same thing.

It's a continuation of 4 years of the same thing that ended the same way 3 times.

I'm not talking about Cassel, Palko or Thigpen, I'm talking about Alex Smith and the fact that you can essentially make the same argument for every one of his playoff losses.

There are precious few common themes here and he's the one that provides the greatest combination of possible and impactful change.

I gave him far more credit than most. I gave him far more rope than most. The bottom line is that he's used it up and I don't see that as being unfair. At some point the check comes due and for me that check comes when he loses 3 straight 1-score playoff games and misses opportunities for big plays in all of them. That's just too much and at 33 yrs old with no upside left, there's simply no reason for me not to explore alternatives.

2nd worst*

Exploring alternatives is fine. I operate on the assumption that the FO is exploring alternatives constantly. They better be. They [scouts and executives] better wake up every morning asking 'how can I improve the roster?'

That's different than shrugging and saying 'anything at all is preferable.'

Here is the kicker and why I believe a long term QBotf from the draft is the best way to go. You can build a smart roster around a quarterback that you can believe in year after year we will correct those needs and keep building a better roster so that we get it right one year. I think having a QBotf from the draft brings us closer to a Super Bowl if we happen to get it right and I know good and well it's a crap shoot but the risk is worth the reward because the warranty on retread tires don't hold up.

The Chiefs get desperate with win now with an older quarterback and the older players we drafted last decade don't play up to their caliber so the deficiencies will always continue with this retread quarterback route.

You have given up too?


Sigh.


Like I said, I have no anger toward Smith and the Chiefs any more, just resignation.

We agree. I read this post and it feels like we are at some impasse. We are not. We both WANT them to pursue a QBotF this offseason.

Wanting this, and being okay/content with Smith as the 2017 starter are two different things. I prefer both these things.

And for me I think Foles is a preferable alternative.

Not because I'm certain that the ceiling is higher, but rather that I think the floor is fine. If it's Smith, I remain convinced that a 1st round bye is a possibility but a divisional round loss is all but assured.

With Foles, that first round bye may not be coming but if the shit hits the fan with Foles, the top 10 pick in a loaded QB draft is on its way and that kid gets to come into a team that's still young and deep. It's an ideal launching pad for a young quarterback. And there's a chance, though diminished, that Foles could take this team to the same/similar performance as Smith. In fact, there's a chance his style can do more given the emergence of key playmakers.

I haven't said 'anything at all' is preferable, but I think there are many preferable options and probably the worst of those preferable options is sitting on our roster and under contract for 2017, so with that in hand, there's no reason for me to retain Alex Smith for next season.

Alex Smith is the killer of two things: kittens and dreams

I can appreciate where you are coming from here.. though I still find it impossible to shake the aforementioned post of yours pre-game to now.

Anyway, why not just hope that Andy and Alex learn from this, and Alex is forced now to become more aggressive?

You think if Andy sees what you saw.. and says to Smith this offseason, "lookit, bro.. I love you and you are being a good soldier, but WE BOTH must take the shots.. or YOU will be out on your ass." ( or if Smith takes his own initiative )

how would you feel then?

"I don't know how to say it any more clearly... Matt's the starter."

Just draft the guy. I don't care what happens with Alex Smith this year. I'm patient. If we have a plan for the dude like the Packers with Aaron Rodgers, I'm good with that. But we have to think beyond him.

But we have to start. And I don't think saying, "Next year's QB class is sooo much stronger, let's wait a year" is an option. You can't predict that. A QB class is strong only until it's not. And when it's not, you're screwed.

If Mahomes is good enough to develop given time on the bench, then take him.