ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Life This Day in History (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=199589)

Amnorix 01-17-2009 12:03 AM

January 17.

1377. Pope Gregory XI moves his papacy from Avignon back to Rome, ending the Avignon Papacy but laying ground for the Great Schism of Western Christianity, or the Western Schism, which would commence upon Gregory's death the following year.

1917. The US pays the Dutch $25 million for the US Virgin Islands.

1991. The US launches Operation Desert Storm against Iraq.

Amnorix 01-18-2009 07:16 PM

January 18.

Nothing all that tremendously historically significant occurred today, and I have time, so I'll select the end of the Nika Riots on this day, 532 A.D.

It was still early in the reign of one of the most undeservedly famous monarchs in ancient history, Justinian I (Justinian the Great). The Roman Empire had split, and the western portion of the Empire had stood tremulously for centuries, and then finally fallen, leaving only the eastern portion of the Empire, latterly known as the Byzantine Empire.

One thing Byzantium had inherited from the Roman Empire were the various games. Some had been abolished, leaving chariot racing in particular as one of the most popular. Like modern sports fans, various groups rooted for their "players", or factions, of which there were four, the Blues, the Greens, the Reds and the Whites. Of these, the Blues and Greens were the most numerous.

Unlike modern times, however, these factions also spilled over into every day life. These colors came to represent not just what team you rooted for, but your political faction as well. And, to a degree, they were also the modern equivalent of "gang colors". Violence often resulted from a faction member being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

As a result of arrests for murder that had occurred, the greatest city of the age, Constantinople, was uneasy. The Blues and the Greens demanded that the accused be released. Justinian the Weak, errr....Great, decreed that the death sentences would be commuted to imprisonment, and that games would be held on January 13.

It was a tense, anxious and ready to riot crowd that showed up for the games at the Hippodrome

Site of the Hippodrome today (partial ruins visible):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...antinple_1.jpg

The Hippodrome was next to, and partially annexed to, the Palace, so the Emperor could oversee the races personally and safely. At first, all seemed normal. Soon, however, it became clear that a great change had taken place: the Greens and Blues were united, and their clamor was directed not at each other, as had always been the case, but at the Emperor. "Nika!" "Nika!!", they cried, the normal word of encouragement -- "Win!" "Win!!" In the past, they had always tried to shout each other down, cheering their own faction member. Now, in menacing chorus, they changed the single word alone, over and over. Factional differences forgotten, united in hatred against the Emperor who had imprisoned their members.

The games were abandoned. The mob poured out of the great circus, bent on destruction. They stormed the City Prefecture, killing the guards, releasing all the prisoners, and setting fire to the building. The Praetorian Prefecture, Senate House, Baths of Zeuxippus and the great Churches of St. Irene and St. Sophia were each visited in turn and reduced to smoking ruins.

Some Senators, sensing opportunity and disliking Justinian's high taxes, saw the opportunity to try to overthrow him. They appointed a cousin, Hypatius, as Emperor.

For five days smoke lay thick over the city, as Constantinople, the greatest city in the Western World, burned.

Justinian was resolved to flee. An opportunity existed for him to take his family out of the city. His wife, however, the infamous Theodora, his wife, the Empress intervened. To her, having risen from lowly actress and, cough, courtesan, to flee was out of the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empress Theodora
I myself [will] never willingly shed my imperial robes, nor see the day when I am no longer addressed [as Empress]. If you, my Lord, wish to save your skin, you will have no difficulty in doing so. We are rich, there is the sea, there too are our ships. But consider first whether, when you reach safety, you will not regret that you did not choose death in preference. As for me, I stand by the ancient saying: the purple [a color that could only be worn by monarchs] is the noblest [burial shroud].

Shamed into action, Justinian turned to his great general, Belisarius, and other military leaders and came up with a plan. His brilliant eunuch, Narses, was sent to the Hippodrome with a small bag of gold. Empty-handed other than this, Narses went to the Blues, whom Justinian had supported, and pointed out that Hypatius, whom they were trying to crown, was a Green. Then he distributed the gold. The Blues walked out. The Greens sat stunned. Then the Imperial Troops, led by Belisarius, stormed the Hippodrome. The rebels were cut down.

A trembling Hypatius was led before the Emperor. An old friend of Justinian's, Hypatius had been rushed along by events beyond his control. Justinian was inclined to mercy. Theodora, however, noted that he had been crowned by the mob, and might be raised up by them once again. Hoving to her will, as he always did, Justinian ordered Hypathius summarily executed.

The capital lay in ruins. Nearly half the city had been burned to the ground. 30,000 had died in the rioting. However, on February 23, 532, the Church of the Holy Wisdom, St. Sophia (sometimes Hagia Sophia), one of the most famous Churches in Christendom until the fall of Constaninople to the Ottoman Turks a thousand years later, was rebuilt for the third and final time.

It stands to this day.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-Aya_sofya.jpg

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/t...t-c-hbetts.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...March_2008.jpg

Amnorix 01-19-2009 03:05 PM

January 19.

On this day, 1919, the Paris Peace Conference officially commenced to finalize the terms of the end of the First World War. Insanely complex, with four victorious countries with differing aims for peace, plus the added complexity of competing Arab and Zionist movements for independence or land rights, it took over a year to complete, with the commencement of the League of Nations in January 1920.

Most often debated is whether the harsh terms imposed on Germany helped pave the way for the rise of Hitler and National Socialism, and the Second World War.

My particular opinion is that there were many factors that helped give rise to Hitler, but that the Versailles Treaty was at least a fairly significant contributing factor.

JOhn 01-19-2009 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5406618)
January 19.

On this day, 1919, the Paris Peace Conference officially commenced to finalize the terms of the end of the First World War. Insanely complex, with four victorious countries with differing aims for peace, plus the added complexity of competing Arab and Zionist movements for independence or land rights, it took over a year to complete, with the commencement of the League of Nations in January 1920.

Most often debated is whether the harsh terms imposed on Germany helped pave the way for the rise of Hitler and National Socialism, and the Second World War.

My particular opinion is that there were many factors that helped give rise to Hitler, but that the Versailles Treaty was at least a fairly significant contributing factor.


Agreed, a long with the world wide depression.

Amnorix 01-20-2009 03:04 PM

January 20.

On this day, 1937, for the first time the President of the United States was inaugurated on January 20th. Previously inaugurated in March, the inauguration date was moved up to January 20th by virtue of the 20th Amendment to the US Constitution. The President taking the oath on this date was Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was being sworn in for his 2nd term.

Also on this day, 1265, England's parliament held its first meeting. Previously, under Anglo-Saxon Kings, nobles and other notables would advise the king. This group was known as the Witenagemot. (Harry Potter fans may note the similarity of this word to the Wizengamot). This group was abolished by William the Conqueror, and replaced by a King's Counsil.

On this day in 1265, however, for the first time a parliament of supporters of the Earl of Leicester was summoned, without royal authorization. In addition to the usual notables, two knights from each shire and two burgesses from each burough were summoned to join the parliament. Later adopted in 1295 as the model form of Parliament, the representation of the commoners on this day 1265 paved the way to the lower house of "Commons".

asdf 01-20-2009 03:17 PM

January 20, 1981
Iran Hostage Crisis ends

Minutes after Ronald Reagan's inauguration as the 40th president of the United States, the 52 U.S. captives held at the U.S. embassy in Teheran, Iran, are released, ending the 444-day Iran Hostage Crisis.

Amnorix 01-21-2009 08:14 AM

January 21.

1813. The pineapple si introduced to Hawaii. While not of tremendous historical significance, I was surprised it wasn't native, so I'll throw this in. :D

1793. Russia and Prussia sign a partition treaty. Poland ceases to exist as a country until 1815.

1861. As a result of the recent secession of their home states, Jefferson Davis and a few other United States Senators resign their Senate seats.

1968. The Battle of Khe Sanh, Vietnam, begins. Referenced yesterday in Obama's inaugural speech, I will give a brief synoposis of the battle and the even more interesting "Riddle of Khe Sanh" later if I have time.

patteeu 01-21-2009 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5411788)
January 21.

1813. The pineapple si introduced to Hawaii. While not of tremendous historical significance, I was surprised it wasn't native, so I'll throw this in. :D

1793. Russia and Prussia sign a partition treaty. Poland ceases to exist as a country until 1815.

1861. As a result of the recent secession of their home states, Jefferson Davis and a few other United States Senators resign their Senate seats.

1968. The Battle of Khe Sanh, Vietnam, begins. Referenced yesterday in Obama's inaugural speech, I will give a brief synoposis of the battle and the even more interesting "Riddle of Khe Sanh" later if I have time.

Do you have any idea where the pineapple came from? I wouldn't have guessed it was non-native either.

Looking forward to your Khe Sanh story if you have time. Cold Chisel, an Australian band, had a minor hit with a song called Khe Sanh. (I suppose it was probably a big hit in Australia).

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/n4HUWrHFQBE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/n4HUWrHFQBE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Rausch 01-21-2009 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5406618)
January 19.

On this day, 1919, the Paris Peace Conference officially commenced to finalize the terms of the end of the First World War. Insanely complex, with four victorious countries with differing aims for peace, plus the added complexity of competing Arab and Zionist movements for independence or land rights, it took over a year to complete, with the commencement of the League of Nations in January 1920.

Most often debated is whether the harsh terms imposed on Germany helped pave the way for the rise of Hitler and National Socialism, and the Second World War.

My particular opinion is that there were many factors that helped give rise to Hitler, but that the Versailles Treaty was at least a fairly significant contributing factor.

Looking back I think we can say it was a complete FAIL on all levels.

Amnorix 01-21-2009 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 5411866)
Do you have any idea where the pineapple came from? I wouldn't have guessed it was non-native either.

Looking forward to your Khe Sanh story if you have time. Cold Chisel, an Australian band, had a minor hit with a song called Khe Sanh. (I suppose it was probably a big hit in Australia).

I never heard of that song. I'll listen to it a bit later.

Hope to do Khe Sang over lunch. It will be a bit lengthy.

Looked up the pineapple thing, and found this:

"Origin: The pineapple is native to southern Brazil and Paraguay where wild relatives occur. It was spread by the Indians up through South and Central America to the West Indies before Columbus arrived. In 1493 Columbus found the fruit on the island of Guadaloupe and carried it back to Spain and it was spread around the world on sailing ships that carried it for protection against scurvy. The Spanish introduced it into the Philippines and may have taken it to Hawaii and Guam early in the 16th Century. The pineapple reached England in 1660 and began to be grown in greenhouses for its fruit around 1720."

The above suggests that the date on which the pineapple was introduced to Hawaii can't be identified with certainty. Another website, however, says:

"When you think of pineapples, you think of Hawaii. So close has the association become that most people assume that the plant is native to the islands. In fact, pineapples originated in South America and probably did not reach Hawaii until early in the 19th century-the first record of their existence there is dated January 21, 1813-after having been spread by Europeans across much of the world."

So apparently this date, 1813 is the first time someone wrote "hey, there are pineapples here", as opposed to "hey, we stuck a pineapple seed in the ground, and it's going like gangbusters and my name is Bob Dole..."

Amnorix 01-21-2009 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 5411880)
Looking back I think we can say it was a complete FAIL on all levels.

Oh yes, the Versailles Treaty failed completely -- that is obvious. The more interesting question is the degree to which it was actually a CAUSE of the rise of the National Socialists and Hitler. That is a much closer question and less obvious.

The worldwide Depression shares a huge portion of the blame for fertilizing the soil in which Hitler sowed, as JOhn originally noted.

Rain Man 01-21-2009 10:11 AM

That pineapple thing is amazing.

EyePod 01-21-2009 10:17 AM

Hopefully today will be the day Herm is fired and a new HC is announced so I can get back to doing actual work.

patteeu 01-21-2009 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyePod (Post 5412190)
Hopefully today will be the day Herm is fired and a new HC is announced so I can get back to doing actual work.

Are you telling us that you're a candidate for the job? Mike Shanahan, is that you?

EyePod 01-21-2009 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 5412203)
Are you telling us that you're a candidate for the job? Mike Shanahan, is that you?

hahaha, yeah, I'm Shanarat. Thanks. I might have to go kill myself now.

patteeu 01-21-2009 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyePod (Post 5412227)
hahaha, yeah, I'm Shanarat. Thanks. I might have to go kill myself now.

Your secret is safe with me, Shanny. ;)

EyePod 01-21-2009 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 5412252)
Your secret is safe with me, Shanny. ;)

I swear I just shuddered. I have a dentist appointment this weekend, and I had the same exact feeling when I saw you called my Shanny as when I think about my teeth getting scraped.

Amnorix 01-21-2009 11:03 AM

The Battle of Khe Sanh. Maps:

the region:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...800px-DMZ1.jpg

The base perimeter and airstrip:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/4867/basemap.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...16px-KhSh9.jpg


A color coded and better marked version of the third map, above, can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KhSh9colkey.png

Amnorix 01-21-2009 11:56 AM

January 21, 1968 marked the commencement of the NVA's all out assault on the Khe Sanh Combat Base (KSCB). The Marines at Khe Sanh suffered an intense three month battle for survival to avoid being overrun by numerically superior regular North Vietnamese troops. Cut off by land and reinforced solely by air, the desperate struggle continued until a relief convoy of Marines arrived.

The Battle of Khe Sanh had several interesting compoentns. A vociferous disagreement between the Commander in Chief, Westmoreland, who was an Army general, and the Marines who never wanted to be at Khe Sanh in the first place, and then were incensed when criticized for not properly defending the base. More interesting, however, is what has become the "Riddle of Khe Sanh". WHY did the North Vietnamese really attack that place, at that time. Although they suffered horrendous casualties and placed extraordinary strain on the American forces, there are certain legitimate questions as to whether it was really designed to overrun the base at all, or rather whether it was designed to distract the Americans from teh Tet Offensive, which would be launched two weeks later. The motives and reasoning of General Giap will never be known until North Vietnam opens its archives on the issue.

Background and Buildup

KSCB was the ultimate result of what had begun as a special forces base in the northeast corner of Southern Vietnam, strategically positioned only a few miles East of the Loatian border (and the Ho Chi Minh Trail) and Northern Vietnam itself. From KSCB, so called SOG (Special Observations Group) teams were airlifted into Laos to observe and impede enemy movements.

(by the way, if you are interested in this stuff, great books by former SOG, John Plaster:

http://www.amazon.com/SOG-Secret-Ame...2558776&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Command...2558776&sr=1-3

By 1968, however, the special operations units had moved even closer to the Laotian border, at Camp Lang Vei. KSCB was instead primarily manned by the marines. SOG would use KSCB to coordinate with headquarters, as KSCB had an airstrip.

In the late summer and fall of 1967, the North Vietnamese launches a series of especially intense, but seemingly disconnected assaults all along the South Vietnamese border. While in no case actually successfully, and while always taking disproportionately higher casaulties, American units saw their combat efficiency greatly decline and some units were knocked out of action altogether as a result of these assaults.

By January, 1968, American intelligence had learned that a full NVA division was in the region of Khe Sanh, with two additional divisions available in support. These considerable forces had substantial logistical support from the nearby Ho Chi Minh trail. Westmoreland and the other commanders were forced to choose between committing additional forces to defend the base, or abandoning it. Over the strident objections of most of the Marine commanders, Westmoreland decided to reinforce the base.

On January 20, a NVA Lieutenant defected, and revealed secret plans for an all out attack. The attack commenced on January 21, 1968. The assault penetrated portions of the base's outer defensive network of surrounding hills, and long range bombardment set off explosions in the base's main ammunition dump.

As North Vietnamese units maneuvered to surround the base, additional American forces were drawn into the growing fray. Meanwhile, the most focused bombardment in the history of warfare began on the Ho Chi Minh trail. On an average day, 350 tactical fighter/bombers and 60 B-52 heavy bombers operated in the air above Khe Sanh. Army and Air Force elements were involved, as well as Navy units pulled from Operation Rolling Thunder strikes against North Vietnam. Intense interservice rivalry disputes were created about command of the air forces employed.

Separately, an airlift was required to supply the troops. Starting at 60 tons per day of support, the airlift required 180 tons per day to supply the troops when all 5 batallions were engaged. As spring approached, low-lying cloud cover (sometimes only 2,000 feet) as well as NVA anti-aircraft efforts made resupply missions extremely hazardous. As a result, airdrops were often utilized.

As American commanders focused efforts on the threatened base, the Tet Offensive was about to begin.

Lang Vei was overrun almost instantly, as American troops were shocked to see at least 12 Soviet-built amphibious tanks involved in the operation.

By mid-March, American intelligence detected that NVA troops were leaving the Khe Sanh region. The battle was not yet over, however, as over 1,000 shells landed on the base on March 22, and the ammo dump was once again targetted.

On April 1, Operation Pegasus was launched to relieve the base. By April 8, however, all hostilities had ceased.

Allied casualties were 205 killed, almost 2,000 wounded, and about 60 missing and presumed killed, excluding special forces, aircraft crews, and troops arriving or leave from the base aboard aircraft. The NVA was estimated by Americans to have suffered 10-15,000 dead, but there is absolutely no way to have any certainty about these numbers. 1,602 NVA bodies were physically observed.


RIDDLE OF KHE SANH

One of the more interesting questions regarding the Battle of Khe Sanh is what was the strategic thinking behind launching the assault. Some have speculated that the NVA sought a second Dien Bien Phu, a decisive engagement to win the war. Westmoreland certainly thought so, and committed extensive reinforcements to win the battle. In his opinion, the concentration of enemy forces at a fixed point was a good thing.

Another theory is the so-called Option Plan. That Khe Sanh would be launched nearly simultaneously with the Tet Offensive, and resources redirected to whichever one seemed most likely to succeed.

Finally, and perhaps most likely, is that Khe Sanh was a diversion to distract American forces from the Tet Offensive, which was the real move to win war. At the time of the NVA build up around Khe Sanh, they had at least a full division in place whiel the Marines had only a single brigade at KSCB. A quick rush would likely have overwhelmed the marines. Instead, the slow build up to 3 full divisions. Second, the sole water source of the base was a stream 500 meters outside the main camp, and the NVA forces never sought to cut the Americans off from that critical supply. Neither were the telephonic land lines ever cut, even though the Vietnamese had invested the base.

By the end of January, in response to the assault, the Americans had moved over 50 battalions to the Khe Sanh region, significantly affecting its ability to resist the Tet Offensive that was launched at that time.

Amnorix 01-22-2009 12:10 PM

January 22.

On this date, 1944, Allied forces in World War II launched Operation Shingle, an amphibious assault near Anzio, Italy. This was the beginning of what would come to be called the Battle of Anzio. The amphibious assault was designed to outflank the German "Winter Line", which was a series of difficult to penetrate defensive fortifications making excellent use of the rugged terrain of central Italy. Fortified by concrete bunkers, gun pits, barbed wire, minefields and hinged upon the almost-impregnable fortress of Monte Cassino, the Allies had been stalled out in front of the Winter Line for nearly a year. Field Marshall Kesselring (Luftwaffe), was more than adequately fulfilling his responsibilities of holding down Allied units and defending Rome and the Southern approaches to the Reich.

About 15 German divisions were employed in defending the Winter Line.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Rome1943_4.jpg

INITIAL PLANNING

Initally, the Americans were extremely resistant to the idea of an amphibious end run around the Winter Line and amphibious assault on Anzio. The American and British high commands were at frequent loggerheads over what the Americans deemed the British undue infatuation with the Mediterranean and the "soft underbelly" of Europe, and what the British deemed the inflexible concentration by Americans on a French landing. Of particular concern to Americans in launching this operation was the consumption and concentration of extremely scarce landing craft that would be needed for D-Day in France.

Eventually, a direct appeal by Churchill to President Roosevelt and Marshall Stalin was accepted, and the operation approved. Churchill argued, successfully, that the operation, if successful, would (1) help relieve pressure on Russia prior to the formal opening of a "second front' in France, and (2) force the Germans to commit additional forces to Italy prior to D-Day.

The strategy was clear. Force Kesselring to weaken the Winter Line to respond to the Anzio beachhead, or continue to defend the Winter Line and risk the loss of Anzio and then Rome, and the cutting off of German forces at the Winter Line.

From the start, however, American commanders in Italy, notably Mark Clark, were concerned that the force allotted to the task was too small, and that the operation would stalemate. The key to this problem was the shortage of landing vessels. The scale of this problem is realized when one understands that amphibious assaults are typically one-way missions. It is extremely hard to extract forces under fire from a beachhead.

Conceived and executed as an attack by a single corp, Generals Clark and Lucas envisioned this as a task more appropriate for two corps, or even a full army.

The initial landings were unopposed, and approximately 36,000 men landed with nary but some Luftwaffe strafing runs to deal with. Within a day, the Americans had moved 2-3 miles inland, captured the port, and began fortifying the tiny bridgehead and pouring in materials. This was contrary to General Lucas's superior's expectations, however. They had envisioned a quick and vigorous offensive assault at the rear of the Winter Line.

Winston Churchill, known for memorable phrases, is reported to have said: "I had hoped we were hurling a wildcat into the shore, but all we got was a stranded whale"

While Lucas's actions could be read as permitted under his orders, and he was outnumbered in the region by German divisions, historians have generally sided against him. By doing nothing but sitting down and defending, he exposed his troops to tremendous risks without causing any considerable difficulties to the German forces in the area.

Masterful defensive tactician Kesselring was prepared. He had already made contingency plans to react to amphibious assaults. His rapid response units quickly moved to interpose themselves, while additional reinforcements were lined up. His request to OKW (German High Command) was granted, and he received three additioanl divisions transferred from other, quieter, fronts, and three operational reserve divisions in Italy under OKW command were released to him.

Three days after the landings, the beachhead was surrounded by three German divisions, including the vaunted Hermann Goering Division.

By January 30th, American reinforcements had placed over 60,000 soldiers into the beachhead. The Germans, building up rapidly and overland, had over 70,000 to defend the line. Lucas attacked first. A two pronged attack gained several miles of territory, but failed to obtain the strategic results he had hoped.

By February 3, the defending Germans, now consistuted as the 14th Army under General von Mackensen, had over 100,000 troops, and launched an attack to liquidate the salient created by the earlier Allied offensive. By February 10th, after fierce fighting, the Allies had lost the salient. A poorly coordinated Allied attack was repulsed, and on February 16th launched a concerted attack to liquidate the beachhead and hurl the Allies back into the sea. By February 18, the Allies were more or less back within the defensive perimeter they had initially created on the day after the landing. The assault petered out as a result of exhaustion.

On February 22nd, Clark, operating under pressure from his own commander, British Marshall Alexander as well as Churchill, ordered Lucas replaced by General Truscott. Lucas's perceived lack of drive and negative view of the operation had finally resulted in his dismissal. Kesselring, in his Memoirs, would note that the original landing force was badly flawed, lacking armor, and would have died had it over-extended itself. Alexander, in his official report months later, would state that the final result was probably the best result that could have been achieved.

The Germans and Allies, accepting that the weather and tactical situation would not permit a decisive breakthrough by either, more or less sat down to await spring. Meanwhile, Truscott planned for a breakthrough to be timed to coordinate with Alexander's Operation Diadem, a massive assault all along the Gustav Line (the main line of the Winter line).

By late May, the beachhead consisted of 150,000 allied troops, including 5 US and 2 British divisions. Opposite them were 5 German divisions in well prepared entrenchments. The German divisions by this point, however, were not operating at high efficiency, with shortages of officers and NCOs.

On May 23rd, Truscott's assault began with 1,500 artillery pieces, a timed aerial bombardment, and the advancement of his troops. Initial fighting was severe, with over 100 US tanks lost in the first day of the breakout. The US Third Division suffered 955 casualties, the mos tin a single day of any division in the US army in the entire war.

His assault was going well and the goal of the attack, to cut off the entire German 10th Army, appeared within reach when Clark ordered Truscott to take a hard left turn and drive for Rome. Truscott bitterly resented this order, but was uanble to contact Clark and regretfully implemented it.

By June 2nd, the entire German line had collapsed. Hitler, who apparently was not completely incapable of learning from his mistakes (i.e. Stalingrad), ordered the German 14th Army not to hold Rome at all costs.

Clark's incomprehensible order had cost the Allies the chance to cut off 7 German divisons from retreating through Italy to reform further north and stall American advances for the remainder of the war.

Amnorix 01-22-2009 12:15 PM

More maps

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...1943JanFeb.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...demMay1944.JPG

Amnorix 01-22-2009 12:15 PM

Are these posts too long? Am I boring people?

chiefsfanintx 01-22-2009 12:26 PM

I'm new here but I really enjoy them. I love history. My dad was in Viet Nam in 1968.My grandfather was in WW2 in Italy but don't know what year.

Amnorix 01-22-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefsfanintx (Post 5415867)
I'm new here but I really enjoy them. I love history. My dad was in Viet Nam in 1968.My grandfather was in WW2 in Italy but don't know what year.

If he was in Italy proper, he was almost certainly dealing with some part of the Winter Line. After we took Sicily, we waited a bit, but then we pretty quickly got into Italy and then up to the Winter Line. From there, things went south (or rather, DIDN'T go North) for a helluva long time.

Part of it was German troop quality, including Kesselring, who proved himself (although an air force guy) a masterful defensive tactician. Part of the problem was the Italian landscape, which was brutal. And another part was that we kept pulling forces out in preparation for Operation Overlord.

EDIT: P.S. thanks to your family for their service to our nation.

Donger 01-22-2009 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5415817)
Are these posts too long? Am I boring people?

ROFL

Amnorix 01-22-2009 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 5415946)
ROFL

This question doesn't apply to you. I know what this thread is to you...

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:...bug_zapper.jpg

:p

patteeu 01-22-2009 01:05 PM

I think this thread is great. If you want to make it more generally accessible, that's fine, but if you keep doing what you're doing, that's great too AFAIC.

Amnorix 01-22-2009 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 5416037)
I think this thread is great. If you want to make it more generally accessible, that's fine, but if you keep doing what you're doing, that's great too AFAIC.

Ok. As long as people aren't like "damn, another tome", I'll let my own amount of free time and interest in the subject at hand dictate things.

Donger 01-22-2009 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5415965)
This question doesn't apply to you. I know what this thread is to you...

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:...bug_zapper.jpg

:p

Yeah, how pathetic am I? I already knew all about Anzio, but I read it all again.

Amnorix 01-22-2009 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 5416133)
Yeah, how pathetic am I? I already knew all about Anzio, but I read it all again.

I'd forgotten Churchill's quote. That guy had the best wit...

Amnorix 01-23-2009 11:46 AM

January 23.

393 Roman Emperor Theodosius proclaims his 9 year old son, Honorious co-Emperor. Dying soon thereafter, he leaves Honorious as sole Western Emperor at the age of 10. Over the 28 years of his reign, beset by many troubles, Honorious singularly fails to meet any of them, dooming the Western Roman Empire to utter extinction soon after his death. The most notable event of Honorious' rule was the first sack of Rome, in 410, by Alaric the Visigoth. This was the first sacking of Rome in over 800 years, since the Gauls sacked the city in 387 BC.

1368. A coronation ceremony is held for Emperor Zhu Yuanzhang. His investiture formally commences the Ming Dynasty, beginning a 300 year period of almost unrivaled tranquil and properous rule for over 100 million Chinese citizens. During the early Ming dynasty, agricultural reforms led to increased wealth, which indirectly resulted in great achievements in building and the arts. It is also during this period taht most of the Great Wall of China as we currently know it was built. (the Ming used stone/mortar/brick, whereas earth had often been used for large sections of the wall).

1941. Charles Lindbergh, famous American aviator, goes before Congress to argue in favor of a neutrality pact with Hitler's Germany.

1973. President Nixon announces that a peace accord has been reached in Vietnam.

patteeu 01-23-2009 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5418287)
January 23.

393 Roman Emperor Theodosius proclaims his 9 year old son, Honorious co-Emperor. Dying soon thereafter, he leaves Honorious as sole Western Emperor at the age of 10. Over the 28 years of his reign, beset by many troubles, Honorious singularly fails to meet any of them, dooming the Western Roman Empire to utter extinction soon after his death. The most notable event of Honorious' rule was the first sack of Rome, in 410, by Alaric the Visigoth. This was the first sacking of Rome in over 800 years, since the Gauls sacked the city in 387 BC.

1368. A coronation ceremony is held for Emperor Zhu Yuanzhang. His investiture formally commences the Ming Dynasty, beginning a 300 year period of almost unrivaled tranquil and properous rule for over 100 million Chinese citizens. During the early Ming dynasty, agricultural reforms led to increased wealth, which indirectly resulted in great achievements in building and the arts. It is also during this period taht most of the Great Wall of China as we currently know it was built. (the Ming used stone/mortar/brick, whereas earth had often been used for large sections of the wall).

1941. Charles Lindbergh, famous American aviator, goes before Congress to argue in favor of a neutrality pact with Hitler's Germany.

1973. President Nixon announces that a peace accord has been reached in Vietnam.

If I had been emporer at age 10, I would have reduced the school week to 3 days a week (Tuesday through Thursday) and would have broken up the monotony with a movie in the cafeteria after lunch on Wednesday. Free seconds on Pizza day too.

Rain Man 01-23-2009 12:17 PM

I like this thread.

Are the older dates Julian or Gregorian?

Amnorix 01-23-2009 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 5418412)
I like this thread.

Are the older dates Julian or Gregorian?

I assume everything is on a "as converted to Gregorian" basis. I'm checking several websites daily, but have found several to be inconsistent, or just flat wrong. I suspect the Julian/Gregorian thing may be partialyl to blame on this.

Amnorix 01-23-2009 11:19 PM

January 24.

On this date, 41 A.D., Gaius Caesar, better known as Caligula, was cut down by his own Praetorian Guards. Senators who had conspired with the guards and hoped to use this opportunity to return to Republican rule were thwarted by the Guards, who pronounced Caligula's uncle, Claudius, as his successor.

Caligula ruled a scant 4 years. The first two were said to have been moderate and promising, with Caligula still young. An illness nearly took his life and, apparently, rendered him mentally unstable to say the least. The next two years were so tyrannical that he was murdered as a result.

In 1776, Henry Knox completed the brutal task of hauling overland nearly 60 heavy cannons from Fort Ticonderoga to Boston. Using oxen and sleds in the harsh New England winter, the arrival of these cannon, and their emplacement on Dorchester Heights overlooking Boston and the harbor, rendered the position of the British and their fleet indefensible. They promptly left.

1848. James Wilson Marshall finds gold at Sutter's Mill in Coloma, California, setting off the Gold Rush.

1961. The Goldboro incident. A B-52 Stratofortress heavy bomber carrying two hydrogen bombs breaks up in the air near Goldboro, North Carolina, dropping its payload in the process. One weapon nearly detonates, with three out of four necessary steps to activate the weapon having been successfully triggered. The other weapon plunged into the ground at 700 mph and broke up, and portions of it (including portions containing uranium), have never been found. Recovery attempts in teh boggy marsh were abandoned due to groundwater issues. The air force bought the site of the landing and left it so no one would interfere, and conducts regular radiation tests there. To date, none has been found.

1972. Love this one. Japanese Stg. Shoichi Yokoi is found in the jungles of Guam and convinced to surrender. He had known the war was over, but said he didn't much like his relatives so he decided to stay to "get even with them" by living in his cave for 28 years. He returns to Japan and is instantly famous, becoming the subject of a documentary and becoming a TV personality. He receives -- get this -- $300 in back pay!

Here's the kicker -- by surrendering in 1972 he becomes the THIRD to last Japanese soldier to surrender after the end of WWII.

:eek: ROFLROFL

1984. The first Apple Macintosh goes on sale.

Amnorix 01-23-2009 11:26 PM

With apologies, I'll go back two days in time and revisit one I missed.

January 22, 1506, the Papal Swiss Guard in the Vatican is formed. At the end of 2005, there were 134 members, a colonel, a chaplain, three officers, one sergeant major, 30 NCOs and 99 Halberdiers (i.e. privates). Any grown men willing to wear this stuff in public, and carry that effective weapon -- the halberd -- deserves mention in this history.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...wiss_Guard.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...peter_dome.jpg

patteeu 01-24-2009 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5421736)
January 24.

On this date, 41 A.D., Gaius Caesar, better known as Caligula, was cut down by his own Praetorian Guards. Senators who had conspired with the guards and hoped to use this opportunity to return to Republican rule were thwarted by the Guards, who pronounced Caligula's uncle, Claudius, as his successor.

Caligula ruled a scant 4 years. The first two were said to have been moderate and promising, with Caligula still young. An illness nearly took his life and, apparently, rendered him mentally unstable to say the least. The next two years were so tyrannical that he was murdered as a result.

In 1776, Henry Knox completed the brutal task of hauling overland nearly 60 heavy cannons from Fort Ticonderoga to Boston. Using oxen and sleds in the harsh New England winter, the arrival of these cannon, and their emplacement on Dorchester Heights overlooking Boston and the harbor, rendered the position of the British and their fleet indefensible. They promptly left.

1848. James Wilson Marshall finds gold at Sutter's Mill in Coloma, California, setting off the Gold Rush.

1961. The Goldboro incident. A B-52 Stratofortress heavy bomber carrying two hydrogen bombs breaks up in the air near Goldboro, North Carolina, dropping its payload in the process. One weapon nearly detonates, with three out of four necessary steps to activate the weapon having been successfully triggered. The other weapon plunged into the ground at 700 mph and broke up, and portions of it (including portions containing uranium), have never been found. Recovery attempts in teh boggy marsh were abandoned due to groundwater issues. The air force bought the site of the landing and left it so no one would interfere, and conducts regular radiation tests there. To date, none has been found.

1972. Love this one. Japanese Stg. Shoichi Yokoi is found in the jungles of Guam and convinced to surrender. He had known the war was over, but said he didn't much like his relatives so he decided to stay to "get even with them" by living in his cave for 28 years. He returns to Japan and is instantly famous, becoming the subject of a documentary and becoming a TV personality. He receives -- get this -- $300 in back pay!

Here's the kicker -- by surrendering in 1972 he becomes the THIRD to last Japanese soldier to surrender after the end of WWII.

:eek: ROFLROFL

1984. The first Apple Macintosh goes on sale.

This was a good day. I'd never heard about the Goldboro Incident.

Amnorix 01-26-2009 08:24 AM

January 25.

On this date, 1945, the "Battle of the Bulge" came to an end. I suspect many here know all about this, so I'll keep it brief.

Hitler and the German High Command, in a desperate effort to try to do regain the offensive and the initiative, carefully husbanded their forces for months leading up to a planned assault against the Western Allies. The assault was designed to split the British forces in the North from the Americans in the South and drive to and capture Antwerp, a critical port for supplying Allied troops.

The assault began on December 16, 1944. INitially, the Germans met with some success, and there are certain criticisms regarding the American's defensive positioning near the thick Ardennes forest where the German assault was launched. FWIW, I have never seen any written support of the scene in Patton, the movie, where Patton "predicts" that the Germans will launch an offensive. If anyone else has any evidence of this, I'd be interested to hear it.

Anyway, the German assault goes well initially, runs into a chokepoint at Bastogne, where General McAuliffe issues the famous "Nuts" response, which neither the Germans nor the British understand, and then peters out as German troops are exhausted by cold and effort and lack of supplies, Allied forces counterattack, Allied air superiority comes into play, and German troops get stacked up due to Bastogne and other logistical problems.

The offensive was never very likely to work, and the Germans expenditure of a huge amount of material and men (comparatively) weakens their defenses and likely hastens the end of the war.

The absolute, bitter cold during this timeframe is noteworthy. Troops on both sides fought during one of the coldest winters in memory.

The battle also inflamed Allied tensions, with Montgomery claiming an undue share of credit and seemingly slighting the Americans. American commanders Bradley and Patton were left absolutely incensed, and rightly so, truth be told.

Amnorix 01-26-2009 08:32 AM

January 26. Wow, dull day.

1340, Edward III, King of England, proclaims himself King of France, as the only surviving male grandchild of his maternal grandfather, French King Philip IV. The French reject the claim on the basis of the Salic Law (basically, a law that disinherits women). This sets the stage for the Hundred Years' War.

Rain Man 01-26-2009 02:59 PM

Back in my freshman year of college, I had a commie-pacifist history professor who refused to teach about anything involving the military or wars. Overall, it was kind of a stupid teaching strategy (try going from the Great Depression to the Fifties without mentioning a war), but it nonetheless made me realize how often wars are the focus of history at the expense of other factors.

So here's a challenge. How about highlighting the biggest military and non-military events of the day?

Amnorix 01-26-2009 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 5428447)
Back in my freshman year of college, I had a commie-pacifist history professor who refused to teach about anything involving the military or wars. Overall, it was kind of a stupid teaching strategy (try going from the Great Depression to the Fifties without mentioning a war), but it nonetheless made me realize how often wars are the focus of history at the expense of other factors.

So here's a challenge. How about highlighting the biggest military and non-military events of the day?

Teaching history without wars is idiotic. Wars is typically the pivotal turning points of history. Nothing changes history as fast and as dramatically as a war. That said, many (inept) teachers just teach the war without teaching enough about the causes of the war, and their results. Studying specific battles and their results is generally fun, but not really critical. It is enough to know who won the Civil War, and a few key battles that led to the result. To go through each step of the war, battle by battle, is not very useful for the casual student.

Actually, thsi thread is somewhat counter to my own personal prediliction that teachers of history are too focused on the memorization of dates. In reality, in my view, specific dates constitute worthless knowledge. Dates are only important to the degree that they let you put matters in context -- THIS thing happened before or after that thing over there. Simply knowing the exact (or almost exact) date on which something occurred is usually a waste of mental space.

This thread merely lets me delve into various historical events within a specific context.

I'll see what I can do about covering a military and a non-military topic. On some dates, I have lots of choices. On other dates, I have very few. The main limitation here is the time that I have to write about whatever my topic du jour is.

rockymtnchief 01-26-2009 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5427075)
January 26. Wow, dull day.

1340, Edward III, King of England, proclaims himself King of France, as the only surviving male grandchild of his maternal grandfather, French King Philip IV. The French reject the claim on the basis of the Salic Law (basically, a law that disinherits women). This sets the stage for the Hundred Years' War.

Notable birthdays on this day, besides my own:D... Douglas MacArthur, Paul Newman, Wayne Gretzky, and Eddie VanHalen.

Amnorix 01-27-2009 11:40 AM

January 27.

Non-military. on this date in 1888, the National Geographic Society was founded in Washington DC.

Military. On this date, 1944, the 872 day siege of Leningrad was lifted by virtue of the Russians having attained a land corridor to the city.

Leningrad was one of the key targets of the German Operation BArbarossa three years earlier, in the initial invasion of Russia. Unable to capture the city on the move, as planned, in part due to the lack of armor assigned to Army Group North (which was responsible for captuirng hte city), the Germans blockaded it, along with Finnish troops who attacked from the west/north.

For three years the city remained under siege, with supplies coming in through the Baltic sea, as well as over the frozen Lake Lagoda during the winter months.

The siege was the second deadliest in modern history (trailing only Berlin), with over 1.1 million dead. Massive civilian casualties were also involved. One cemetary alone in current St. Petersberg (the re-renamed Leningrad), has over half a million bodies interred from the siege. The battle for Leningrad involved more casualities than the battle for Stalingrad, Moscow or the atomic bombings of either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

After all birds,, pets and rats (that could be caught) were captured, cannibalism began to be reported in the besieged city. Leningrad's police established a special division to deal with cannibalism.

The siege was a constant drain on Nazi men and materiels, and their inability to eliminate the city had significant strategic ramifications for the entire Eastern Front for the duration of the war.

Amnorix 01-29-2009 10:23 PM

January 28

Fair bit of stuff today.

1077. On this date in 1077, Holy Roman Emperor Henry IV completed the Walk to Canossa, resulting in the lifting of his excommunication by Pope Gregory VII. The Walk to Canossa was the first true victory of a Pope over the German domination of the Papal seat that had held sway since the fall of the Roman Empire.

1521. The Diet of Worms begins, most famously dealing with Martin Luther.

1871. The Siege of Paris ends as the French sue for peace from the Prussians. As a result of the victory, King William I of Prussia becomes Kaiser of all Germany, at a ceremony held rather ironically in the Palace of Versailles. This is cited as the beginning of the Second Reich. It also resulted in the downfall of Napoleon III and the Second French Empire. Further results of the Franco-Prussian War were also extremely significant:

1. countries without conscription or a military general staff soon adopted both, as they were clearly instrumental in the German victory.

2. Europe came to understand, painfully, what America had already learned in the Civil War -- the indispensable value of railroads in military movements and logistics.

3. The Dreyfus Affair, previously referred to in this thread, was an indirect result of the French defeat.

4. Alsace-Lorraine would continue to serve as a thorn in teh side of the French psyche for decades.

5. Germany was made the preeminent land power in Europe, sealing the reputation of Otto von Bismarck.


1934 -- the first ski tow begins operation in Vermont.

1958 -- Lego patents the design of its bricks (ask my kids how important this one is!!)

1986 -- Space Shuttle Challenger breaks apart while taking off, killing all 7 astronauts on board.

Amnorix 01-29-2009 10:32 PM

January 29

1845. Edgar Allen Poe publishes "the Raven"

1850. Henry Clay introduces the Compromise of 1850 to the US Congress. A compromise designed to lessen growing hostilities between Northern and Southern states, particular with regard to the expansion of slavery, the contained among its provisions the Fugitive Slave Act, which was reviled in the North.

1886. Karl Benz patents the first successful gasoline powered automobile.

1936. The first inductees to the baseball Hall of Fame are inducted. Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner are the sole inductees. None earns 100% of the vote (Ty Cobb was the highest at slightly over 98%), establishing a tradition that holds to this day of not giving anyone 100% of the vote. Such notables as Cy Young, Tris Speaker, Grover Cleveland Alexander and Rogers Hornsby weren't voted in in the first year.

1944. I include this out of special consideration for you guys -- the last battleship commissioned by the United States -- the USS Missouri -- is launched.

2002. President George W. Bush gives his "Axis of Evil" speech.

Amnorix 02-01-2009 01:55 AM

January 30.

Soon I'll have to ask the mods to rename this thread "This (or a very recent) day in history". :(

Anyway, January 30th is a very, very busy day in history indeed.

1649. Charles I, King of England, is beheaded. Charles I, an advent believer in the Divine Right of Kings, precipitated his downfall by, among other things, marrying a Catholic, seemingly trying to bring England closer to Roman Catholicism, engaging in religious disputes with the Scots, and most importantly seeking to augment his own power at the expense of Parliament. As a result, civil war erupted, Charles lost, and was executed for treason. Oliver Cromwell was appointed Lord Protector of England. By 1660, however, after the death of Cromwell (more on this below), and the restoration of the monarchy under Charles' son, Charles II, Charles I was canonized by the Church of England.

1661. On this date, Oliver Cromwell, the former Lord Protector of England, is ritually beheaded on the anniversary of the execution of Charles I. I say "ritually", because his body was exhumed due to his already having been dead for nearly two years in order for the rather gruesome at that point head to be separated from the rest of the body. What was left of his body was then hanged in chains at Tyburn, London, where many English executions took place. His body was eventually thrown into a pit. His head, however, was mounted on a pole outside Westminster Hall for nearly 25 years, until 1685, after which, it went through many hands over the next several hundred years (including being bought and sold) until eventually interred in 1960. It must have been a heck of a conversation piece...

1835. In the first assassination attempt against a US President, Richard Lawrence attempts to shoot President Andrew Jackson. He was clearly mentally ill, believing that he was Richard III, King of England, and once he was paid a substantial sum owed to him by the US government (which Jackson was improperly withholding from him), he would be able to go and claim the throne.

1862. First US ironclad, the Monitor, is launched. It and its enemy sister-ship, the Merrimack, would revolutionize naval warfare.

1933. Adolf Hitler is sworn in as Chancellor of Germany. In retrospect many believe this was not a particularly good idea.

1968. The Tet Offensive begins in Vietnam. See prior post regarding the Battle of Khe Sanh. The Tet Offensive was the largest attack by the Vietcong during the war, with over 80,000 troops attacking in over 100 South Vietnamese cities and towns. While it had an unquestionably disastrous military result on Vietnamese forces -- indeed the Vietcong were largely wiped out as a result -- the attack had a massive propaganda value, convincing the American public that they had been misled about American success to date during the war, and the chances of winning the war.

Amnorix 02-01-2009 02:06 AM

January 31.

On this day, 1950, US President Harry S. Truman announces the US's intention to build a hydrogen bomb.

Non-military -- on this day, 1961, Ham the Chimp, the first hominid to be launched into outer space. Surprisingly, this was not a one way mission, and Ham lived until 1983, until the ripe old age of 26 (he was only 2 at the time of his mission), having spent years at the National Zoo in Washington DC and then the North Carolina Zoo.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._the_chimp.jpg

Amnorix 02-01-2009 02:12 AM

February 1.

1865. President Lincoln signs the 13th Amendment to teh Constitution, permanently prohibiting slavery in the United States.

1978. Director Roman Polanski skips bail and flees to Europe after being charged with having sex with a 13 year old girl.

2004. Janet Jackson suffers a "wardrobe malfunction", baring teat to half a billion people or whatever.

Amnorix 02-02-2009 03:05 PM

February 2.

1536. On this date Spaniard Pedro de Mendoza founded Buenos Aires.

1653. On this date New Amsterdam, later renamed New York City, is incorporated.

1790. The Supreme Court convenes for the first time.

1887. Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania observes the first Groundhog Day.

1925. Dogsleds reach Nome, Alaska, with Diptheria serum (antitoxin). The "serum run to Nome", also known as the "Great Race of Mercy", inspires the Iditarod race.

1943. The last German forces in Stalingrad surrender. Those who have kept up with this thread will be unsurprised to hear that I plan to post a longer summary of these events as soon as possible.

1974. The F-16 Fighting Falcon jetfighter plane flies for the first time.

1989. The last Soviet column leaves Kabul, Afghanistan.

2009. Donger eagerly awaits my summary of the Battle of Stalingrad, and plans to read every word, even though he knows just as much about it as I do. :evil:

Rain Man 02-02-2009 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5445519)

1661. On this date, Oliver Cromwell, the former Lord Protector of England, is ritually beheaded on the anniversary of the execution of Charles I. I say "ritually", because his body was exhumed due to his already having been dead for nearly two years in order for the rather gruesome at that point head to be separated from the rest of the body. What was left of his body was then hanged in chains at Tyburn, London, where many English executions took place. His body was eventually thrown into a pit. His head, however, was mounted on a pole outside Westminster Hall for nearly 25 years, until 1685, after which, it went through many hands over the next several hundred years (including being bought and sold) until eventually interred in 1960. It must have been a heck of a conversation piece...

That would've been a way cool thing to have. I wonder what it typically sold for.

Jenson71 02-02-2009 04:18 PM

The National Baseball League was started on this day in, I think, 1886.

Looked it up - 1876

Dave Lane 02-02-2009 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5445519)
1835. In the first assassination attempt against a US President, Richard Lawrence attempts to shoot President Andrew Jackson. He was clearly mentally ill, believing that he was Richard III, King of England, and once he was paid a substantial sum owed to him by the US government (which Jackson was improperly withholding from him), he would be able to go and claim the throne.

Do you suppose this is the first guy to get one of those emails (probably mails back then) from Nigeria bout the sum of money and his kingship???

Amnorix 02-03-2009 07:32 AM

I have thoughts (delusions, really) of doing a thorough job on Stalingrad, so that will likely be during the weekend

Amnorix 02-03-2009 07:46 AM

1 Attachment(s)
February 3.

1690. The first paper money is issued in America, by Massachusetts.

1787. An uprising of central and western Massachusetts farmers, known as Shays' Rebellion for its leader, is crushed. Central and Western Massachusetts are basically never heard from again.

1913. The Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution is ratified, authorizing the federal government to collect income taxes.

1917. A day after Germany announces unrestricted warfare, the United States breaks off diplomatic relations with that country, putting it on the path to joining World War I.

1945. The Soviet Union agrees to enter the Pacific War against Japan. They opportunistically wait until after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima to invade Manchuria with over one million troops, and then make territorial claims against the Sakhalin and certain Kuril islands, which cause lingering problems that I believe still exist to this day.

Also on this date, 1,000 bombers of the US Eighth Air Force bomb Berlin.

patteeu 02-03-2009 08:32 AM

50 years ago today was "The Day The Music Died":

Quote:

On February 3, 1959, a small-plane crash near Clear Lake, Iowa, United States killed three American rock and roll musicians: Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens, and J. P. "The Big Bopper" Richardson, as well as the pilot, Roger Peterson. The day was later called The Day the Music Died by Don McLean in his 1971 song "American Pie".

Extra Point 02-04-2009 12:51 AM

RIP Buddy Holly. 2/3/58

Amnorix 02-05-2009 11:40 AM

February 4.

960. The coronation of Emperor Zhao Kuangyin occurs, beginning the Song dynasty in China that would last for nearly 300 years until thrown down by the Kublai Khan (grandson of Genghis), and the Mongols. The Song Dynasty was the first government to issue paper currency and established China's first standing navy. The Song also made significant discoveries in military warfare, including the use of gunpowder.

1703. In Edo, the 47 Ronin commit Seppuku. The story of the ronin is one of the foremost legends of Japan. The ronin were former samurai who had become leaderless (and therefore ronin) after their feudal lord was forced to commit seppuku for assaulting a court official. The ronin patiently plotted and then murdered the court official over a year later. The ronin then committed the ritualistic suicide -- seppuku -- that they knew their murder were force upon them.

1789. George Washington is elected the first President of the United States by the Electoral College.

1801. John Marshall is sworn in as Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. Greatly enhancing the powers of the Supreme Court during his lengthy tenure, Marshall is generally considered the most influential justice and one of the msot influential of the founding fathers in terms of his effect on American governance.

1861. In Montgomery, Alabama, the six states that have to date seceded from the United States meet and agree to form the Confederate States of America.

1945. The Yalta Conference begins. Lingering questions would arise as a result of the soon-to-die President Roosevelt's conduct at the conferencel and whether certain decisions later criticized resulted from his poor health.

1969. Yasser Arafat assumes Chairmanship of the Palestine Liberation Organization.

2004. Facebook is founded by Mark Zuckerberg.

patteeu 02-05-2009 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5460426)
February 4.

960. The coronation of Emperor Zhao Kuangyin occurs, beginning the Song dynasty in China that would last for nearly 300 years until thrown down by the Kublai Khan (grandson of Genghis), and the Mongols. The Song Dynasty was the first government to issue paper currency and established China's first standing navy. The Song also made significant discoveries in military warfare, including the use of gunpowder.

Song dynasty, eh? I guess that while the 3rd is the anniversary of the day the music died, the 4th was the anniversary of the day the Song started.

Amnorix 02-05-2009 12:05 PM

February 5.

1576. Henry of Navarre formally renounces Protestantism and becomes a Catholic, paving the way for his coronation as King Henry IV of France. Involved in the religious wars as a Huguenot, upon his ascention he ends the religious strife by legalizing religious liberties (the Edict of Nantes). One of the most popular of French kings, Henry was assassinated by a Catholic fanatic in 1610.

Now is a fun time to discuss Regicide (the murder of a king), and the peculiarly specific method of punishing htose that committed (or attempted) such crimes.

Following numerous rounds of torture for interrogation to discern whether he had any accomplices, Henry's murderer, FRancois Ravaillac, was sentenced to die by being "drawn and quartered."

"The process was as follows: the regicide offender would be first tortured with red-hot pincers, then the hand with which the crime was committed would be burned, with sulphur, molten lead, wax, and boiling oil poured into the wounds. The quartering would be accomplished by the attachment of the condemned's limbs to horses, who would then tear them away from the body. "

Note that after the torture the victim would still be alive and conscious to see his executioners tying him to the horses.

Good times.


1885. King Leopold of Belgium claims the Congo as his personal property. His atrocities there would later lead to serious recriminations and become one of the first international scandals of the 20th century.

1918. This one is just for you guys -- Stephen W. Thompson of West Plains, Missouri, shoots down a German plane. Thsi is the first American aviation victory in warfare.

1945. United States General Douglas MacArthur returns to Manila.

1958. In the air off the coast of Savannah, Georgia, near Tybee Island, A United States B-47 Bomber carrying a Mk15 Hydrogen Bomb collides with an F-86 Fighter Plane, and is damaged but still operational. They receive and obtain permission to jettison its cargo at 7200 feet. A massive search fails to turn up the bomb, which is believed to remain buried to this day in Wassaw Sound. Depending on the particular model, it had between 100 and 300 times the explosive power of the Hiroshima bomb.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 12:17 PM

Ravaillac was such a Catholic religious fanatic that not even orders, like the Jesuits, would let him in.

patteeu 02-05-2009 12:28 PM

What was Ravaillac's motivation for killing the king?

Amnorix 02-05-2009 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 5460571)
What was Ravaillac's motivation for killing the king?

He claims he had a vision that the King had to convert his former people, the Huguenots, to Catholicism. He failed several efforts to meet with the King to communicate his vision.

Then the King invaded Catholic Netherlands as an attack against the Pope and decided he had to stop him, apparently by murder.

Oh, another fine nugget -- Ravaillac's parents were exiled, and his entire family was forced to change their name.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 12:43 PM

I think it's because he thought the king was not doing enough to convert the French Protestants (Huguenots) into Catholics. The Huguenots vs. the Catholics were a big, exciting rivalry in post-Reformation France and would go off and on killing each other. St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre is the big example. Wikipedia's entry says something about France invading Netherlands led Ravaillac to suspect a French attack on the Pope, but I don't know anything about that.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 12:52 PM

There's this great story about an event during one of these Huguenot/Catholic fights where a couple of Protestants tried throwing a Catholic out of the top story of a tall building, but the Catholic survived because angels miraculously moved straw and cow dung below the window to pad his fall. I think that's how it goes.

Amnorix 02-05-2009 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71 (Post 5460636)
Wikipedia's entry says something about France invading Netherlands led Ravaillac to suspect a French attack on the Pope, but I don't know anything about that.


I should note that my comment is exclusively from Wiki as well, as I, too, am unfamiliar with the hostilities relating to the Netherlands.

I am only passingly familiar with Henry IV at all, and what I posted about him is basically about all I know, though I lifted heavily off Wiki to refresh my foggy memory on the matter.

Donger 02-05-2009 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5460511)
1958. In the air off the coast of Savannah, Georgia, near Tybee Island, A United States B-47 Bomber carrying a Mk15 Hydrogen Bomb collides with an F-86 Fighter Plane, and is damaged but still operational. They receive and obtain permission to jettison its cargo at 7200 feet. A massive search fails to turn up the bomb, which is believed to remain buried to this day in Wassaw Sound. Depending on the particular model, it had between 100 and 300 times the explosive power of the Hiroshima bomb.

I love Broken Arrow stories. The one over Spain was better, though.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 02:14 PM

Since this is a history thread, I have a histoiography question for everyone:

Is it possible to rank historical events as to their significance?

On one hand, it seems like because everything builds off from the past, it would only be deduced that the most significant thing would be the very first event in human history. There's no WWII without WWI, and no WWI without the half of a dozen or so factors that directly influenced it, and those factors had beginnings and so on. I asked a professor of history this, and she said she wouldn't do rankings, as a historian herself.

On the other hand, it seems obvious that some events are more important than others. Princip shooting the Archduke is a more significant and influential event than say, Babe Ruth being traded to the Yankees, for an extreme example. And this thinking is definitely seeing in this thread, where we list the "more important" events for one particular day in history.

A while back, I got a Times book that I loved and still do today. It ranked the most significant events, in their view, from the past 1000 years. Their top choice was Gutenburg printing the Bible. Is this ranking, and other rankings like it, legitimate?

Donger 02-05-2009 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71 (Post 5460925)
Since this is a history thread, I have a histoiography question for everyone:

Is it possible to rank historical events as to their significance?

On one hand, it seems like because everything builds off from the past, it would only be deduced that the most significant thing would be the very first event in human history. There's no WWII without WWI, and no WWI without the half of a dozen or so factors that directly influenced it, and those factors had beginnings and so on. I asked a professor of history this, and she said she wouldn't do rankings, as a historian herself.

On the other hand, it seems obvious that some events are more important than others. Princip shooting the Archduke is a more significant and influential event than say, Babe Ruth being traded to the Yankees, for an extreme example.

A while back, I got a Times book that I loved and still do today. It ranked the most significant events, in their view, from the past 1000 years. Their top choice was Gutenburg printing the Bible. Is this ranking, and other rankings like it, legitimate?

Must
resist
urge
to
reply

Damn you, Amnorix.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 02:25 PM

Cmon Donger. Jumping into the water is a lot better than taking small steps into it. Or sitting on the sidewalk.

Amnorix 02-05-2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donger (Post 5460928)
Must
resist
urge
to
reply

Damn you, Amnorix.


:fire::fire::fire::fire:

Amnorix 02-05-2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71 (Post 5460925)
Since this is a history thread, I have a histoiography question for everyone:

Is it possible to rank historical events as to their significance?

On one hand, it seems like because everything builds off from the past, it would only be deduced that the most significant thing would be the very first event in human history. There's no WWII without WWI, and no WWI without the half of a dozen or so factors that directly influenced it, and those factors had beginnings and so on. I asked a professor of history this, and she said she wouldn't do rankings, as a historian herself.

On the other hand, it seems obvious that some events are more important than others. Princip shooting the Archduke is a more significant and influential event than say, Babe Ruth being traded to the Yankees, for an extreme example. And this thinking is definitely seeing in this thread, where we list the "more important" events for one particular day in history.

A while back, I got a Times book that I loved and still do today. It ranked the most significant events, in their view, from the past 1000 years. Their top choice was Gutenburg printing the Bible. Is this ranking, and other rankings like it, legitimate?

An interesting question. The problem is that you have to put limitations on things, or else you get into the spiral of ever-increasing consequences of the action. But for Princip's father having an itch in his pants, Princip is never born, therefore he never shoots Ferdinand, therefore there is no WWI, therefore there is no WWII, and compared to that things like D-Day and Stalingrad and Midway are clearly less important because they would not have happened...

Obviously, I'm making decisions about what historical events are "important", every time I post a new day's events in this thread. Nonetheless, I contend that what you suggest is a pointless exercise. The problem is that the further bakc you go, the more significant almost anything becomes as a result of the ever widening consequences of the act. Without Caesar there is no Roman Empire, which affects alot more than when/where the printing press is discovered.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 03:01 PM

I agree with everything you've said. Then the limitations, trying to find them, and though maybe they are always undefinable to the exact, seem to me to be things that go right along with historical inquiry.

My thoughts for now is that I do feel we can rank events in their significance. I think we must be able to. It's just a recognition of the events that have caused a larger ripple effect to occur in the world. So, as of now, I think my history professor was wrong in this regard, if she understood what I was asking her.

Jenson71 02-05-2009 03:03 PM

Now I remember something else she said too. "As a historian, I wouldn't do that, but if I did, I would probably agree with that choice." Hmmm.

Amnorix 02-05-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71 (Post 5461056)
Now I remember something else she said too. "As a historian, I wouldn't do that, but if I did, I would probably agree with that choice." Hmmm.

I guess. I think the best you can do is group things into categories. The other problem is sheer volume. It's also somewhat hard to compare events that may have had a transcendent effect on one part of the world with events that had that same effect in a different part of the world. How do you compare the unexpected rise of the Mongol Empire, to the Greek conquest of most of the known world under Alexander, to the Caesar's crossing of the Rubicon and the transformation of the Republic to an Empire? I honestly don't have the faintest idea.

Then overlay that with such things as the advent of monotheism by the Jews -- how does that compare? In some ways that's the single most important religious "event" of all, given how much flowed from it. Or should we say that it was the birth of Christ, or Mohammed, given the relative impact of the Christians and Muslims compared to the relatively small and short-lived Jewish kingdom?

It's impossible, and I'm honestly just not sure it's worth the effort.

Amnorix 02-05-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71 (Post 5461056)
Now I remember something else she said too. "As a historian, I wouldn't do that, but if I did, I would probably agree with that choice." Hmmm.

No logician she...

Rain Man 02-05-2009 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71 (Post 5460925)
Since this is a history thread, I have a histoiography question for everyone:

Is it possible to rank historical events as to their significance?

On one hand, it seems like because everything builds off from the past, it would only be deduced that the most significant thing would be the very first event in human history. There's no WWII without WWI, and no WWI without the half of a dozen or so factors that directly influenced it, and those factors had beginnings and so on. I asked a professor of history this, and she said she wouldn't do rankings, as a historian herself.

On the other hand, it seems obvious that some events are more important than others. Princip shooting the Archduke is a more significant and influential event than say, Babe Ruth being traded to the Yankees, for an extreme example. And this thinking is definitely seeing in this thread, where we list the "more important" events for one particular day in history.

A while back, I got a Times book that I loved and still do today. It ranked the most significant events, in their view, from the past 1000 years. Their top choice was Gutenburg printing the Bible. Is this ranking, and other rankings like it, legitimate?

I might propose that "importance" be measured in terms of the amount that the event itself bent the arc of history. Certainly everything builds off the past so you have a pyramiding effect, but I could argue that the birth of Julius Caesar was not in and of itself an important event. It was a baby being born. Big deal. Travis Henry creates babies twice a year. The big event was Julius Caesar crossing the Rubicon, because that event bent the arc of history pretty strongly.

I think that's a better look, because otherwise everything traces back to lightning striking a protoplasm or some giant spider eating the last giant scorpion or God deciding that Eve would look great with big mammary glands.

Rain Man 02-05-2009 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5460511)
1885. King Leopold of Belgium claims the Congo as his personal property. His atrocities there would later lead to serious recriminations and become one of the first international scandals of the 20th century.


Interestingly, he ended up with the largest ball collection in the world after keeping ones accidentally thrown into the Congo by children in Angola and Uganda.

Adept Havelock 02-05-2009 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix (Post 5461025)
An interesting question. The problem is that you have to put limitations on things, or else you get into the spiral of ever-increasing consequences of the action. But for Princip's father having an itch in his pants, Princip is never born, therefore he never shoots Ferdinand, therefore there is no WWI, therefore there is no WWII, and compared to that things like D-Day and Stalingrad and Midway are clearly less important because they would not have happened...

Obviously, I'm making decisions about what historical events are "important", every time I post a new day's events in this thread. Nonetheless, I contend that what you suggest is a pointless exercise. The problem is that the further bakc you go, the more significant almost anything becomes as a result of the ever widening consequences of the act. Without Caesar there is no Roman Empire, which affects alot more than when/where the printing press is discovered.

Without a Greek victory at Salamis, Greece is overrun. No tradition of Athenian Democracy, no "Western Civilization" as we know it.

Then again, if Ar-Pharazôn hadn't sent his fleet West to Aman.... :p

Amnorix 02-08-2009 07:25 PM

February 6

1778. America and the French sign the Treaty of Alliance, paving the way for the French to join the American Revolutionary War and the path to ultimate American victory.

1819. Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles founded Singapore, which goes on to be one of the most critical parts of the British Empire for the next 125+ years.

1862. General Ulysses S. Grant gives the Union its first victory of the war, at the Battle of Fort Henry.

1959. Jack Kilby of Texas Instruments files for the first patent for an integrated circuit.

Amnorix 02-08-2009 07:36 PM

February 7. A pretty serious yawner.

1807. The Battle of Eylau begins. A battle between Russian and Prussian forces against Napoleon, the result of the battle is inconclusive, the first check against the Grand Armee which had previously crushed all opponents.

1904. A fire in Baltimore, Maryland, destroys over 1500 buildings in just 30 hours.

1962. America bans all imports/exports from/to Cuba, causing mass depression among serious cigar smokers.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.