bowl games and the combine wil determine who we are picking

I think geno will end up being the obvious number 1..I don't remember people being all upon rg3s dick until after the bowl game and the combine

My thread makes it clear. He may be a good positions coach, but no person should want a coach that coddled big Ben and his behavior. The Rooneys, the fans, and Tomlin wanted him fired for years. The only reason he kept his job is because his best friend, Ben, vouched for him. Even his teammates spoke out about how he favored ben.

He is the most overrated coordinator in the nfl. Apart from coddling Ben, he led one of the worst red zone offenses. Got his qbs clobbered. And never adjusted to situations like maybe deciding to run the ball when your qb plays on a broken ankle. Arians is a good positions coach whose genius is largely driven by coaching two unbelievably gifted qbs, and he is a players coach which I absolutely do not want.

There is a lot not to like. Again, post what you just wrote of a steelers board. You will get drilled worse than knowmo.

Geno isn't the prospect rgIII was. Again, I like geno. But rgIII was a sure thing. Everybody knew it and few disagreed.

The difference between RG3 and Geno is 4.3 speed vs 4.6 speed and the systems they ran in college. As passers, they are extremely comparable.

So, what I have learned today form ChiefsZilla is that Geno Smith has "major bust potential" because he would have a hard time mastering a pro style offense and because he isnt RG3.

Which he isnt, he is GS3.

months before the draft a lot of posts called the gap between Luck & RG3 a large one. There were folks calling RG3 sure bust who couldn't run an NFL offense and would be the next Vick but worse.


Heh

Well...THAT'S the cheesiest thing I've read today.

Actually, it is the lacking foot speed of this year's QB draft that makes these players less ideal as top picks. They can all throw a decent pass, some are smarter yadayada, but the need for foot speed has never been greater at the QB position.

Both Luck & RG3 use mobility in their game at this level.

RgIII was a sure thing because his floor was that he would be an out of this world running qb. His upside was to be an out of the world athlete who was also an excellent pocket passer. Geno is going to be a pocket passer who can use his legs if he has to. That is a tremendous difference.

Geno HAS to be not just a good, but a masterful pocket passer. I never said he can't do that. Don't put words in my mouth. I've praised his football iq and work ethic. I've said it is a risk. And when I say bust potential, I am basing that on the idea that anything short of a franchise qb is a bust. Solid starter to me, is a bust.

wow what a pass by RG3. A lil slide and boom!

How many "sure things" at QB have been drafted in the last 15 years?

I don't think this matters because I want a qb and geno is my horse.

I am talking about people overhyping the guy and ignoring the reality that in a lackluster class with Barkley nosediving, geno is still not a consensus #1.

Well, I guess RG3 has "major bust potential" too because of risk of injury, then.

amirite?

Yeah, but my point is that outside of Peyton Manning once in a decade type guys, there is rarely a consensus top QB.

Manning wasnt even the consensus top QB...not even close.

No. I don't know how that even applies. And rgIII walked into the nfl with a much better pocket passing skill set than geno anyway.

IMO Geno is RGIII without the elite scrambling talent.

Barkley is one of the least impressive top guns we have seen. The point is it should not be hard to replace him as the consensus top qb.

Q of post 84

The reason I said rgIII was sure fire was that... Yeah, I believed rgIIIs floor was at the worst an elite running qb. I believed his most likely upside as to be a big Ben qb that was so elusive in the pocket that he could extend plays even if he couldn't make a lightning quick read.

Genos success will depend on being an elite pocket qb. He has to be elite at pre snap reads. Elite at going through progressions. Elite at making unbelievably fast hot reads, blitz pickups, and getting rid of the ball very quickly. Things he hasn't been asked to do.

RgIII would have succeeded even if he was only average at those things. Geno won't be. Hence, he is a riskier prospect. I like geno. But again, I'm not going to exaggerate his stock.

Yeah..um no.

I agree they need a QB. Shit, they need at least 2 of them. I'm not convinced next years QB class is very good at all. Maybe someone pans out and is an annual pro bowler. I'm not convinced that any of next years QB class is worthy of a #1 or #2 overall pick whether the Chiefs need one (or 2) or not. I want the Chiefs to succeed and if that means the guy isn't there this year then so be it, but to take chances at #1 or #2 is difficult. I want talent that is 100% or as close as anybody can get to 100% with those picks. I don't want Tyson Jackson type picks again. Those kind of risky picks is why we are where we are. What I am saying is if the QBOTF is not there, I am not going to jump off the ship because of it.
You can but I won't.

That's complete and utter bullshit, which is a specialty for you.

RGIII never faced the kind of pressure that Smith faces consistently, but when Smith is in the pocket, he has far more pocket awareness and passing skill set at this point in their development.

Who gives a rat's ass if a QB is an elite running QB?

If you don't succeed as a passing QB, you ain't winning shit in the NFL.

You are ****ing moron.

Smith can't overcome shit to win a game. RGIII did.

That is a very smart post

I said that was his floor. I said his realistic floor was that he would be a qb who used his legs to extend passing plays. I also said rgIII had tremendous upside to be a great pocket qb.

Don't talk shit if you aren't going to exaggerate.

Believe me i was high on this guy he is a backup at best listen to a vol fan

Name me one QB that can overcome shit every game.

I'm talking about a guy that is trying to keep up with opposing offenses because his defense couldn't stop your grandmother and her friends if they played a game against them, all while having to contend with constant pressure, because his O-Line couldn't block your grandmother and her friends either.

What the **** are you talking about?

If his floor is that he's an elite running QB, and that is all he accomplishes, then it doesn't ****ing matter.

And again, the reason you call it a risk is you have to ASSUME he is a clutch qb even though we haven't seem enough physical evidence. We have to assume he can handle tough defenses even though hes played mostly Mickey mouse defenses. Or that he can bounce back after getting battered around. We have to assume he will excel at blitz pickups, hot reads, and can win even in games where the defense dominates the o line.

I like the guys ability to overcome these things. But they are risks. Risks I didn't worry about last year with rgIII.

He's l McNabb with more clutch ability.

That is just a stupid ****ing argument.

You are just making shit up to support a stupid ****ing argument with no merit.

You're being petty if you're going to get hung up about what I believe a qb is going to be in a worst case scenario, and ignore what I said was the realistic scenario.

Thats what I see when I watch him play and the comparison I've been making for some time now.

Barkley is one of my least favorite QB prospects.

No I am not, you dumbshit.

I am just doing exactly the same thing you are doing when you talk about the risks with Smith.

He hasn't played good defenses. He hasnt proven to be nails in the clutch consistently. His biggest successes have come out of a college oriented offense.

I didn't say he can't do these things. I am saying you are assuming he can even though we haven't seen it.

I'm the one arguing on merit. You're the one who is absolutely sure about something we haven't seen.

not like he scored 70 in the bowl game ...or lit up the #8 passing d in the country last week and almost beat Oklahoma with no defense.

I've said multiple times over the last year....
Big Ben never had to learn to read defenses. He is a pass first qb who can hold on to the ball too long. RgIII doesn't have to be elite at reading defenses either. He can use his speed to roll out of the pocket and him being an elite qb throwing on the run, he can extend plays in ways most qbs can't.

If geno can't read defenses on a top tier level, he is a flat out bust. Period.

Never happened.

He didn't have a break-out year for anybody who knows anything about college football. He threw for over 4000 yards last year, with 31 TD against 7 int. And he wasn't anything to sneeze at in 2010 either.

ROFL @ your takes, Zilla.

You post as if you have never seen Geno Smith extend plays with his mobility or his pocket awareness.

It's beyond silly.

For a #1 qb, you are basing off a very low sample size against defenses that aren't exactly elite. It is an assumption that because he carved up Oklahoma, that means he can carve up the texans.

Exactly. The kid has shown consistency and ability to maintain top level play over the course of 3 years starting.

Jfc.

I have said geno can do those things. He can't rely on that as his primary crutch. Big Ben can. RgIII can. Geno HAS to succeed by being exceptional at reading defenses quickly. Period.

Extending a play either because of sheer size and strength or speed has nothing to do with reading a defense.

And BR and RGIII can read defenses.

How about last year against LSU? Texas this year?

If you are gonna say he has played mostly cupcake defense, thats ok...the kid plays in a conference that isnt known for defense....but you also cant discount the games he has played very well against good defenses by touting "small sample size" either.

Big Ben is notorious for holding the ball way too long. He would be an average qb if he wasn't so good at extending plays. RgIII can too - I am saying that with his elusiveness and ability to read on the run and throw on the run, he didn't have to be elite at quick reads. He is going to be unstoppable if he becomes elusive and terrific at quick reads, and I think he's on his way to doing that.

You can't seem to understand one simple concept.

I don't ****ing care if RGIII isn't a bust because of his elte running skills.

He isn't ever going to lead a team to the SB because of his elite running skills.

He, like every other QB that has won a SB, will have to lead his team to the SB from the pocket.


I don't give a rat's ass if he wins a few extra games because he can run.

I don't want a Michael Vick.

I want a Steve Young.

What? He put his team in position to win multiple times vs OU and TCU, both good teams.

OU was the 12th rated defense and have 2 first round caliber DB's and Geno torched them. TCU has a nice DB prospect in Jason Verett (5 INT's this year) and Geno torched him too at the end of the game for a TD.

TCU, TTU, KSU and OU were all good defenses that Geno has played this year. And he made good throws on an insanely talented LSU defense last year.

That is something that can be said about ANY QUARTERBACK that will lead his team to a championship.

Tell me the last time a team won a championship with a QB that couldnt be effective staying in the pocket or reading defenses.

Ill wait right here.

I am not discounting them. I am saying there isn't enough evidence to say he is surely going to succeed against elite nfl defenses. We are assuming. I ASSUME he can because I think he has football iq and work ethic. But I know it is an assumption and that he hasn't proven it on the college level nearly enough. Hence, the risk.

I've said QUICK reads.

Big Ben. Aaron Rodgers.

Elite qbs. Both have a tendency to hold the ball way too long.

That was easy.

All of this is true for every single player at every single position who enters the NFL draft.

You are so full of shit.

Geno Smith is putting up comparable numbers against the same competition, with a far inferior cast around him that RGIII had.

You sir, are a ****ing reerun.

Geno Smith makes some of the quickest reads IVE EVER SEEN.

Barkley sucks, Smith is inconsistent IMHO,Jones and Wilson has just as much chance as Smith.

Bray is intriguing but a Jr....

Just our luck we suck the year there is not an elite QB.

Now your point is taking on a completely different approach. Rodgers holds the ball? The physically unremarkable Aaron Rodgers? The same player who is not exceptionally strong, athletic, or quick/fast?

He has brass ones, though, and that's why he allows plays to develop. Same with Brady.

You're going in a lot of different directions here.

Another post full of shit.

Big Ben would not have won the SB against the Seahawks in today's NFL.

That was a defensive win.


Aaron Rodgers doesn't hold the ball too long, he just doesn't have time.

RgIII played a lot More games against tough defenses. Any qb in a major conference plays most of their games at worst against average defenses. Most of smiths career has been against really, really bad defenses. He has much less of a track record against great defenses than the average #1 prospect.

In a spread. That is not the same thing. C'mon.

RGIII played in the Big XII, not the SEC.

:facepalm:

Ill give you a little time to figure out why I used the emoticon.

He has played at a super bowl level in an aerial offense that relies on him to freelance and hold on to the ball too long. He has done that his entire career.

shhhhhh

Zilla just went full Herm on this thread...

He played plenty of very good defenses. And a lot less miserable defenses.

In 2010 he played in a spread? I mean air raid offense?

Absolutely. When I think about lock down, ferocious defenses, units laden with some of the country's best insurance salesmen, I think of the Big XII.

You are so full of shit.

I doubt that Rodgers has ever averaged more than 2.5 seconds in the pocket.

LMAO

classic zilla

Whatever. Ok guys you win. He is a perfect prospect. He has no flaws. His college career has been perfect.

Again. I want to draft the guy at #1. But jfc, enough with the idea that he is a sure fire prospect. Or that I'm stupid because I am saying what everybody outside of the brilliant geniuses at cp is saying.

Exaggeration planet. Where people we like are superman. And people we hate are 100% evil lex Luther's.

I'm done for the night. Time to eat and get ****ed up.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uNsvPiZAWZE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is the offense he ran in 2010...mostly pro style mixed with some shotgun and spread looks.

I don't think anyone is claiming he's perfect, dude. Far from it. Like all prospects, there's a lot of risk with selecting this player.

But that's the draft.

Jfc. Addressed and answered. But yeah, 2010 was enough proof that he is a flawless #1 qb.

Nobody here is saying he comes without reasonable flaws.

We are just saying the ones you are trying to say exist, dont.

Umm... I have complimented the hell out of him and am getting drilled because I point out some risk. I'm not even calling them flaws. Risks. This is shit I out up with all the time. If its not sunshine and roses you get labelled a hater.

Barkley sucks.

shuddup, hater.:evil:

That's the cross up.

I am not saying they are flaws. They are risks and risks I didn't see in rgiiii.

Again, I would draft the hell out of him. But do I think he could easily bust? Yeah. Do I absolutely love his upside? Yes. Does he have the character I think tends to predict improving qbs? I think he does.

So we are arguing about something I don't think we necessarily disagree with. Happy thanksgiving man. I'm out.

It's just stupid that people are coming up with reasons for us not to pick this guy.

It's time.