Sal needs to rack up about 4 more ASGs as a catcher and I think he's in the HOF.

5 more years like that & he will be heading to Cooperstown.



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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I told Ned Yost I think <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Royals?src=hash">#Royals</a> should sign Reddick/Ziegler &quot;We&#39;ve talked about both guys..Both guys would make our team a lot better.&quot; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Hmm?src=hash">#Hmm</a></p>&mdash; Casey Stern (@CaseyStern) <a href="https://twitter.com/CaseyStern/status/796808068101271552">November 10, 2016</a></blockquote>
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(BTW, that's Josh Reddick and Brad Ziegler)

Cuban Breakfast looks to be heading to Canada.

3 years for $33 mil.

Get it done Dayton.

****, does this mean I have to hate him now?

No, not necessarily. Tony Bitchtista is all but gone now, so hopefully the whiny bitch syndrome that perpetuates that team will trickle away once he leaves . . .

But Donaldson is still there. Hopefully Kendrys gives him a kick in the nuts when he arrives to spring training.

Not crazy about either of those guys. I don't think Reddick is going to live up to his contract.


Good deal for Morales and too many years/too much risk for KC in this market.

They can still go DH-only and do it more cheaply, with less risk.

One year deals with Beltran or Holliday position you just as well, IMO, as Morales... at least for 2017.



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**** Kendrys. No doubt he goes up there and immediately becomes a flaming reerun.

It's the Canadian standard.

Won't ever forget the home run he hit off Keuchel in the playoffs.

Screw him though. Can't stand the blue Jays.

I blame trump.

We don't win a WS without Morales. I wouldn't have cared if he ended up signing a combo Jays/Broncos contract after what he did for us.

I hope Cuthbert or someone spends the offseason juicing because we got no one to replace K-Mo's power.

Until we sign a DH, which I think is inevitable.

So if Morales has set the market for the guys in the tier behind Trumbo and Encarnacion, will be interesting to see if that holds or if the market falls back a bit.

I'm interested to see what Matt Holliday and Carlos Beltran end up doing. I think either is a great option for for KC, and they should be in the same general pay range as Morales.

I think either of those guys is an upgrade from Morales, actually.


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Finally a celebrity makes good and heads to Canada.

Dammit I didn't want HIM to leave for there.

You think Beltran gets more than 1 year?

So, a text conversation with buddies kicked this into gear, and an extra-long mutual morning nap by the twins allowed me to write it all out. Here are my full offseason thoughts, now that the first domino has fallen (reserve the right to update as things develop)

Coming into 2017, I rank the Royals' needs as follows:

1) Proven middle of the order bat
2) SP
3) RP reinforcement
4) 2B
5) RF/platoon partner for Dyson vs. lefties

Now... my first orders of business are going to be extending Duffy and Herrera. I think both are prime candidates for it. Herrera because he's never had the huge payday, and the security would probably be too much to pass up (even if it's a little bit of a break for 2017 salary).

I sign Duffy to a 4-year, $48 million deal, with a 5th year on a mutual option for $15 million with a $4 million buyout. Structured as follows: $4 million, $12 million, $14 million, $14 million. By doing this, I save $4-4.5 million off of Duffy's 2017 salary. He doesn't really sacrifice any earning power, as he has the buyout to guarantee that money. And those rates on the final three years of the deal are what you would pay on the open market for a 3/4 starter or an elite reliever. So you don't even need Duffy to be ace-like to make it work.

Cash saved: $4.2 million

I sign Herrera to a 3 year, $27 million extension, with a 4th year on a mutual option for $15 million with a $3 million buyout. Structured as follows: $2 million, $10 million, $12 million. Again, the buyout pays him off for taking a hit from his arbitration in 2017. His salaries in 2018 and 2019 are market competitive for a good-not-great closer, a tick below the Jansens/Chapmans. Puts him in place to save 80 games over 2018 and 2019 and hit the 2020 free agent market at age 29 as an elite, established closer.

Cash saved: $3.3 million

That frees up $7.5 million in 2017 salary. If the Royals really did need to shed payroll, maybe that's enough that they don't have to make any other deals to save cash. If, as I think, they are actually going to spend MORE than the $132 they did in, I think that frees up enough to spend wisely in free agency to fill holes.

But I'm going to get a little crazier.

I've long thought suggestions KC would trade one of its 2017 free agents before the July trade deadline were crazy. But when I look around and see the value relievers have right now, I have to look at that differently. I love Wade Davis. But I'm starting to believe the teams' best bet for 2017 improvement involves trading him. What would that look like?

I think if you trade Davis, you have to plug one of the five holes I mentioned above. You're not going to get an MLB-ready middle-of-the-lineup bat for one year of Davis (Dave Stewart is no longer a general manager, alas), but you could get someone you can plug into the rotation or 2B/RF.

Davis Trade Options:
1) Nationals. The Nats' window is closing. Bryce Harper is a free agent after 2018, and the Yankees will come calling. They have been let down by their bullpen for several years in a row. Davis offers them the opportunity to plug that problem, if combined with Koda Glover. The Nationals also have an abundance of pitching talent and options. Stephen Strasburg and Max Scherzer are signed long-term. Tanner Roark is just entering arbitration. Gio Gonzalez is back for 2017 on an option. Joe Ross was great as a rookie in 2016. And they have uber-prospect Lucas Giolito leading a list of young, controllable starters including Reynaldo Lopez, AJ Cole, Erick Fedde, and Austin Voth. Of that group, Giolito is probably untouchable and Fedde is too far from the bigs to be the primary piece. But place any of the others in a deal for Davis, and it starts to make sense. Davis for Lopez and one of Cole or Voth would make sense for both sides. It's also possible KC could seek Andrew Stevenson as the primary or secondary piece, an LSU product who profiles as a plus defender in CF and good hitter, who could be ready as soon as July 2017.

2) Giants. The Giants are rumored to be a big payer and may end up with one of Melancon, Chapman or Jansen in FA, but I don't think that necessarily means they're done on relief pitching. In a win-now window, the Giants could be motivated to deal for Davis. It would have to include their top prospect, Christian Arroyo, who would have to be a 2B for the Royals and is unlikely to be ready at the start of 2017. And it also would likely have to include Tyler Beede, the Giants' No. 2 prospect, who also spent 2016 at AA. In this deal, the Royals are looking for midseason reinforcements in the rotation and at 2B. Arroyo is not likely to be a superstar but would be a very steady plus bat at 2B. Beede has No. 2 starter upside.

3) Dodgers. The Dodgers also figure to spend big and land one of the top 3 closers, but like the Giants could use more bullpen help than that. A Davis swap for one of Cody Bellinger (OF/1B with a lefty power stroke who made it to AAA in 2017 and could be ready for MLB by June) or Jose De Leon (SP, with No. 2 starter upside, ready for MLB) would also make sense. It would be risky for KC, with the deal basically having to be a star for prospect swap (likely with a lotto ticket prospect thrown in from LA's side), but it could plug a lot of gaps moving forward and in 2017. Bellinger could be a nice injection of power for the offense, playing RF and DHing in 2017, and taking over at 1B in 2018.

There are more options than these three, but those are the three best trade waters for KC, IMO. I think the Nationals deal is the most likely, as they're the most desperate and have the biggest surplus of assets KC would seek. So I'm going to call Wade Davis to Washington in exchange for Reynaldo Lopez (who immediately becomes your 5th starter) and Austin Voth (who immediately becomes your 6th starter). Both would be rookies in 2017, so you're getting tons of control.

Now, the Royals have traded a $10 million dollar piece for two minimum salary guys. I've freed up a total of $17.5 million from the 2017 payroll, which should put KC somewhere in the $117 million range. I don't need to spend anything in FA on SP now, but have weakened the bullpen. I'll get to that in a few minutes.

With that money, I'm going to target two of three bats on the FA market: Matt Holliday or Carlos Beltran, and Steve Pearce.

Holliday/Beltran are an either/or situation for KC. Not getting both of them for that price. Holliday would be my top target, as a strong RH bat that balances out the lefty-heavy middle of KC's lineup. Playing him primarily at DH, with the rare start in LF when Gordon gets a day off or DHs, should keep Holliday healthy enough to play 140 games (he may also see some time at 1B). He also showed encouraging signs that he may be primed for a rebound season in 2017... was better than Morales in more limited time in 2016 and offers potential for a big upgrade. Something like .280/.375/.500 is still in Holliday's tank, if he's healthy. That would work out to around 25-30 HR, and should help with overall team run production. Also think he might be available on a 1/10-11 million or 2/20 deal.

Beltran is the fallback but is a great one. Think he's maybe a little pricier - $13-14 million in guarantees for 2017 - but I'd look at structuring that as one year with a mutual option... make the 2017 salary $10-11 million and add $2-3 million in buyout. Again, you're relying on the DH role to help Beltran stay healthy, with occasional time in RF (would play there against lefties, with Cain sliding to CF). Also think this is an upgrade from 2016 Morales in production... similar line to Holliday, and an average baserunner rather than a terrible one.

I'm going to go with Holliday as my sign, at $10 million in commitment for 2017. With the rest of my money, I'm looking at Pierce on a 2-year deal for $15-18 million. Pearce isn't a star, but he's a great complementary player who can play 1B, 3B, LF, RF, and even some 2B and punishes lefties (with power). He's a great complement for Jarrod Dyson as your primary CF.

Finally, I top off my bullpen. Herrera is the closer. Matt Strahm stays in the bullpen full-time. Scott Alexander and Brian Flynn are useful options. Joakim Soria needs to be relegated to 6th inning or earlier duties, though, so I spend my last blood, sweat and tears convincing David Glass to let me push payroll in the 140s on a reunion deal with Luke Hochevar, something like 3 years, $20 million (that again, is backloaded). I also sign Drew Storen as my out-of-nowhere reclamation project in the pen. If I can't increase payroll much, I pay for this by backloading some of Pearce's 2017 salary into a buyout (that comes due after 2018)

So what does this all look like?

Rotation:

Duffy (195 IP, 3.40 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 210 K, with some additional upside in ERA and WHIP but corresponding downside)
Kennedy (200 IP, 3.50 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 190 K)
Jason Vargas (180 IP, 4.00 ERA, 1.25 WHIP - just solid and competitive)
Yordano Ventura (could be great, could be awful, but offers major upside and could benefit from pitching the day after Vargas and showing teams a completely different look)
Reynaldo Lopez (has good stuff, should be a better-than-average final starter)

Rotation depth:
Austin Voth
Mike Minor
Matt Strahm
Chris Young (Stuck with him for 2017)

That's a much rosier rotation situation, with nice mixtures of upside and insurance.

Bullpen:
Herrera
Strahm (eventually moves to the rotation, maybe)
Hochevar
Soria
Wildcard (FA signing like Storen or internal option like Kyle Zimmer of Josh Staumont)
LHP - Scott Alexander
LHP - Brian Flynn
long Relief - Chris Young

Lineup (vs. RHP)

CF - Dyson (.270/.330/.375 in around 400 ABs, also good for 35-40 SB)
3B - Moustakas (.275/.340/.500, with 25-28 HR)
RF - Cain (hopefully the moves allow you to keep him healthy and play him around 145 games, allowing him to go .300/.350/.450, steal 20 bags, and make the lineup work)
1B - Hosmer (.290/.340/.450, with potential for that complete season which would look something like . 320/.375/.500, with 30 HR)
DH - Holliday (.280/.375/.500, 25-30 HR)
LF - Gordon (I don't think he's done, and feel confident .260/.340/.425 is a reasonable floor for him, if healthy)
C - Sal Perez (.260/.290/.400, with 20-25 HR)
2B - Steve Pearce (.270/.330/.425 vs RH)
SS - Escobar (who cares)

Bench-
2B - Whit Merrifield. I don't think he's a star, but he could be replacement level at 2B for a low cost offensively, with plus D and baserunning.
C - Butera/Perez. Not going to play enough regardless.
OF - Orlando (now basically a 4th OF, offers some insurance for Cain's injury proneness)

In Merrifield and Pearce, you also have two very utilitarian pieces. Only real problem is that you don't have a quality reserve SS.


Lineup (vs. LHP)
2B - Merrifield (hit lefties well as a rook, think .280/.320/.400 is a reasonable target for him against lefties)
3B - Moustakas (against really tough lefties, could sit him for Pearce, who rakes lefties)
CF - Cain
1B - Hosmer (again, could be rested for Pearce against tough lefties)
DH - Holliday
LF - Gordon (see: Pearce)
C - Perez
RF - Pearce (had an OPS over 1.000 against lefties in 2016 and has a career .852 line against them)
SS - Escobar

Bench -
Dyson
Orlando
C

To review:

1) Middle of the order bat: Solved with Matt Holliday
2) SP: Improved both rotation and depth with trade of Wade Davis
3) RP reinforcement: Questionable, probably not quite as great. Davis/Herrera/Strahm definitely has more upside than Herrera/Strahm/Hochevar, with probably less risk. But with a better rotation, is that still an issue?
4) 2B - Pearce is not going to be a great defender at 2B, but he and Merrifield are a productive combo there
5) RF/platoon. Pearce is a perfect complement to Dyson... in part because he crushes lefties, but also because his versatility and ability to play 3B and 2B adds some utility to his roster spot.

I think that's a team that can win the Central and win another World Series, without huge doses of luck. You have some safeguards built in for injuries to the rotation and lineup... but even with all that, if Gordon, Cain, Perez and Hosmer all have 2016 repeats, it falls apart. Their improvement/bounce back is probably the most important piece. The Royals also still have some trade chips in Cuthbert and Dozier who could be used to sweeten a deal involving Davis and improve the return, or who could be trade chips at the deadline.

Your thoughts?

Maybe. Also could see 1 year, mutual option for year two with buyout (1-3 million).


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Thanks bin Laden.

I've watched Cody Bellinger in the fall league here the past few months.

Dude looks very good. Great power stroke. Would take in a heartbeat.

Yeah. He's talented. I have a hard time completely believing the brain trust of the Dodgers would move him for one year of a reliever, no matter how good he is.


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Yea, it's why if they really would move him, you take it.

No way I would. I think he'll be a good MLB player.

I can only hope the Dodgers would be that dumb. **** LA.

We aren't moving anyone. 2017 is our year. Cleve isn't tendering Napoli or Rajai Davis, who knows what happens to their starters who got hurt, etc etc. they're vulnerable for sure. I'm more worried about Det

REPORTED for a massive signature.

I think you're right unless the market for relievers remains crazy. A team like the Nats with a short window may be motivated to pay big now for an established bullpen stud like Davis rather than spend 80 million on chapman or Jensen.


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BA just came out with their top 10:

1. Josh Staumont, rhp
2. Matt Strahm, lhp
3. Hunter Dozier, 3b/of
4. Eric Skoglund, lhp
5. A.J. Puckett, rhp
6. Scott Blewett, rhp
7. Chase Vallot, c
8. Ryan O’Hearn, 1b
9. Jorge Bonifacio, of
10. Kyle Zimmer, rhp

Interesting that they have the 2 big lefties (Skoglund and Blewett) this high --- feels like their projecting their size and draft pedigree as much as anything.

Haven't read the full comments yet, but Staumont's upside is definitely the highest out of all Royals prospects. He's got a Verlander-good fastball/curve combo.

Control is significantly worse, though.


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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is increasing sentiment coming out of CBA negotiations that the qualifying-offer system, as we know it, is dying as of next year.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/798242553124573184">November 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If that means no compensation for departing free agents, this will CRUSH the Royals, who&#39;ll have 4-5 guys worth offering QO&#39;s to next year. <a href="https://t.co/qZSWqo2qvl">https://t.co/qZSWqo2qvl</a></p>&mdash; Rany Jazayerli (@jazayerli) <a href="https://twitter.com/jazayerli/status/798243581106462720">November 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If that's all true, that ruins several years of planning and strategy by our front office. That can't be enacted so quickly --- it's just not rationale by the league.

That stands if they remove compensation completely, IMO, I doubt the league would do that.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The sense I&#39;ve gotten is teams that lose FAs will get recompense in some form or fashion. It&#39;s more teams that sign them won&#39;t be penalized. <a href="https://t.co/7niKDPAcC2">https://t.co/7niKDPAcC2</a></p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/798244640424071168">November 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I have a feeling that if we sign a "real" DH (someone brought in to be a full-time DH) it is going to be someone worse than Kendrys at about the same price as we could have kept him Kendrys for.
More likely it seems is we will downgrade offensively and save some money, and downgrading this offense seems like a bad idea.

If Kendrys was that easily swayed to join the hated Blue Jays, dude was probably a clubhouse cancer.

Good riddance.

:rolleyes:

Dude will be 34 and got his last contract. Good for him. He was great for us and that's all I care about.

It would have cost KC $17 million to keep Morales this year, on the qualifying offer. That's too rich for an all-bat guy.

The extra year is likely what turned KC away from Morales on this deal.

They can get similar or even superior hitters for the same type of AAV but fewer years. One year of Beltran at $12 million or one year of Matt Holliday at $10 million is likely to produce similar or better results as Morales, at a lower/similar cost and with less long-term risk.


This makes a lot more sense. Teams have always been compensated for players leaving as FAs. I imagine it will always exist in some form.


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Bring Belly back in to DH? I heard he's getting in great shape.

I would be interested in how this would go after Royals employee Mike Sweeney publicly **** on him after Billy got KO'd by Valencia.

Billy will prolly only get a minor league deal with spring invite.

Judging by Royals Twitter, the Royals are unveiling a new alternate home jersey and cap on Thursday. Looks a lot like the gold Friday jerseys this year.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sneak peek of new 2017 Royals jerseys + caps coming exclusively to the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheK?src=hash">#TheK</a>&#39;s Team Store and <a href="https://twitter.com/mlbshop">@MLBShop</a>. Get yours this Thursday, Nov. 17th! <a href="https://t.co/eLe6a7FDbY">pic.twitter.com/eLe6a7FDbY</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/798223985968234496">November 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's a pretty big leap to call a guy a "clubhouse cancer" just because you don't like the team that offered him $33 million to go play for.

I'm a big fan of Kendrys Morales, but at his age and with the makeup of the Royals team next year, I think it makes perfect sense to let him go. The Royals will have a logjam at third base next year with Moose, Cuthbert and possibly Hunter Dozier, so letting one or two of those guys log some games at DH doesn't sound like a bad idea. I also like the idea of Salvy getting some rest by DH'ing once or twice a week.

I hope Kendrys Morales does well as an individual player for the Blue Jays, just as I hope those ****ers lose 120 games next year.

Kendrys was supposedly one of the best guys on the team at watching film and picking things out. Hopefully that rubs off on the other guys.

If it's anything different than a slightly-tweaked (non WS-commemorating) version of last year's Friday unis then I will be disappointed. I thoroughly enjoyed those.

I'd prefer a solid starting pitcher or DH/OF with 25-30 HR potential, but I guess a new alternate home jersey will be ok.

Yes, enjoy a new jersey in lieu of these other things.

Don't understand where the negativity is coming from.

There are basically no pieces off the board yet, the Winter Meetings haven't even happened yet, and you both seem to be convinced they're going to sit pat.

There are a handful of DH options who could provide similar value as Morales at similar AAV with less risk. I talked about a few of them down the page, in my big reply on Sunday.


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Not negative. Just making a joke.

Interesting piece on Herrera's sudden disuse of his slider last season.

http://kansascity.locals.baseballpro...5/slider-away/

http://kansascity.locals.baseballpro...9.01.47-PM.png

TRADE. EVERYONE.






...?

Salvy just named Secretary of Defense (don't neg rep me for being lame)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwwNbXgWgAQj26g.jpg

Not convinced, but concerned. All right, I'll try a little patience.
I still think DH is going to be a big hole next season, though.

I think the plan might be to have Cutberth and Moose rotate at DH next year.

If they do that they are getting a bat in RF then. We are picking up another bat no matter what.

I think that's the publicly stated/fallback plan. Not sure it's the actual plan by Moore and co.


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What do we make of Cuthbert's bat? He was quite young, 23, and not many rookies at 23 get 500+ PA. In fact, only 65 have since the 1969 divisional setup. Of those (wRC+):


40. Cuthbert 94
49. Febles 87
50. Gordon 87
61. Alshittys 62


The other 3 had really good defense/speed metrics tho which made them more valuable. While most of the 65 players on this list ended up being regulars for quite some time, most below Cuthbert didn't end up becoming good hitters. In fact they were mostly awful, but many (Ozzie Smith, Wilie Tavares, Billy Hamilton etc) had other skills that not only brought them up - but kept them up. Cuthbert doesn't.


The top 6? Fred Lynn, McGwire, Dusty Baker, Alvin Davis, Bagwell, Kris Bryant, so the point here seems pretty obv

Meh, he was pretty great at the beginning but hit a wall over his last two months. It happens for rooks. We'll see how he holds up this year.

Sarcasm meter you guys.


It's all about **** the Blue Jays and all things Canadian.

Reading a Cards forum and they think they can get Cain for Garcia/Adams......lol :facepalm:

Reyes/Weaver, Wong, and something else would be a start.

*** Official 2017 Royals Offseason Repository
 

Garcia is a piece that makes sense for Cain, but he would have to be a secondary piece.

Matt Adams? No ****ing thank you. Mozeliak ****ed up by not moving Adams when his value was artificially high a few years back. KC isn't going to bail him out.


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Exactly....would you do Garcia and Wong?

So what that would really mean is that Cuthbert is the main DH.
Or that it would really be a DH rotation among Moose, Cuthbert, Salvy, probably Cain, and a prospect like Dozier.

No. I have never been that high on Wong and still am not.

Neither one of those guys is enough of a return for Cain as the primary piece, and they're not enough combined, either.




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Can you link that?


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Gonna need DJ to chime in on this one.

Then you're pretty much committed to only having 8 decent batters... and that's counting Alcides as a decent battery.


The fact nobody uses a 3+ DH platoon means that's its a terrible idea.

I think it would mean Cuthbert is the DH 100-110 games, with him getting 30-35 starts at 3B to rest Moustakas, Moustakas getting 20-25 games at DH, and the rest of the DH days being used to give Gordon and Cain a 1/2 day off each week.

That rotating DH plan works a little better if you have a super util guy who's a credible bat. Steve Pearce is not likely to break the bank but could make sense there. Could get 140 games parceled out amongst 1b, 2B, 3b, LF and rf


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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Charlie Morton gets $14M, 2 yrs plus incentives with astros. 1st evidence of nuttiness of SP market. Insane!</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/798920876334792707">November 16, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/...f=11&t=1197956

It's discussed throughout this thread....

Barf

Pretty hilarious valuations on both sides there.

Yeah, Jaime Garcia has some value and so does Adams, but those guys are greatly overvaluing them.

Lorenzo Cain has produced more fWAR over the past three years than any full-or-part time CF not named Trout or Betts (yes, more than McCutchen). They're greatly undervaluing them.


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If the Cards plan on moving those two, it would take that plus to get a player like Cain. Even then, no smart GM is making that move when Adams is a lazy ass and Jaime is damaged goods.

But most Cards fans are insistent that they have to build IMMEDIATELY to compete with Chicago, when they should be looking at the long haul.

Adams and Garcia would be acceptable secondary pieces (maybe not together, necessarily)... what would you view as a reasonable offer from St Louis' side of things for Cain?


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From the little I know about Cain as an outsider, he's getting up there in age, has some injury concerns and I worry he won't age well because so much value comes from his speed.

So I'm not sure I'd really be interested in moving for him, but I'd imagine it would take atleast one of those two guys, a b plus prospect and a throw in.

I'm not totally sure. If I were the cardinals general manager (I'm not, applied, over qualified apparently) I would either stand pat and wait for my next wave (they're a ways off, the pitching isn't but the bats are) or look to move some of my plus pitching for a legit young everyday player.

Someone I could pair with Piscotty, grichuk in the outfield and build around.

I admittedly have no clue who that would be.

All fair comments. He will be 31 in April or March, so he's at the end of his prime years, probably has one-two years left of top production.

Honestly, I think he has more value for KC than they're going to receive back in trade because of his age, service time, and the injury concern.

If he gives you 140 games, you're likely getting a 4-5 win player who impacts the game with his bat and legs and defense. That was the profile in 2014 and 2015.

There's also the possibility he pops a lower leg injury and misses two months, like he did this year. That's the part that makes a trade most unlikely, IMO.

Garcia + a B+ prospect + a lotto ticket seems about right. That prospect would need to be someone who can contribute in 2017, though. Hard for me to imagine KC moving him for that return and only having a helpful Garcia in 2017.


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Yeah, I just don't think he fits in stl timeframe. If this were the 2013 team? Sure.

At this point, id rather see the cards possibly move peralta and put a package together for a ss, moving diaz to 3rd.

I read something about Simmons but I'd imagine that's a pipe dream.

Cain doesn't have much trade value given his injuries and his pending FA and his age. That said, who even wants Garcia or Adams? You can get 150 IP of 4.50 FIP from Jason Vargas next year probably, and Adams has no value even as a DH. Garcia has major injury red flags anyway, much worse than Cain. I'll bet he misses more time this year, and he costs 12M anyway.

Peralta could DH for the royals I suppose.

Frankly, the cards don't have much to trade in terms of vets worth a shit

Most likely, both teams are going to rebuild in 2018. And hoping they can win 85 or so games this year before they do.