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chiefzilla1501 03-24-2014 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10512887)
See I just don't see this.

The Alex Smith move doesn't gel with this philosophy at all.

We should be trying to improve on last year RIGHT NOW.

What teams like the Seahawks and Panthers do is trust their draft to fill in starters. They aren't shy about giving late round picks starting jobs over veterans. It's one thing I like about those kinds of systems. Schwartz is a perfect example. If Dorsey is any good, you can get a decent starting guard late I'm the draft. The Seahawks had an outstanding draft the year they lose a third for Whitehurst.

I also think it does gel with the Alex Smith trade. We can easily field a team as good as last year in 2014. In 2015, we are on pace to stockpile a lot of picks and free up a shit load of space to buy actually elite free agents like jj Watt or Earl Thomas. I know the window is closing but if we hold off for one year, we could set up an unbelievable 2015 offseason.

chiefzilla1501 03-24-2014 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10512897)
You know what is painfully horrible?

Losing a playoff game when you're up 38-10 early in the 2nd half.

I really don't care what they have to go through to get there. Just get there already.

I don't think bandaiding it by filling needs in free agents helps much either. We did that for years with Carl Peterson so we've been down that road before. Especially if the next two years we duff and we are back to the same shit show we had to March out after vermeil left (which is a lot more vermeil and Petersons fault than herm)

htismaqe 03-24-2014 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10512901)
What teams like the Seahawks and Panthers do is trust their draft to fill in starters. They aren't shy about giving late round picks starting jobs over veterans. It's one thing I like about those kinds of systems. Schwartz is a perfect example. If Dorsey is any good, you can get a decent starting guard late I'm the draft. The Seahawks had an outstanding draft the year they lose a third for Whitehurst.

I also think it does gel with the Alex Smith trade. We can easily field a team as good as last year in 2014. In 2015, we are on pace to stockpile a lot of picks and free up a shit load of space to buy actually elite free agents like jj Watt or Earl Thomas. I know the window is closing but if we hold off for one year, we could set up an unbelievable 2015 offseason.

Loading up for a one or two-year window is just like buying a power ball ticket.

loochy 03-24-2014 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10512956)
Loading up for a one or two-year window is just like buying a power ball ticket.

Exactly. Your chances are slim, but they are better than if you didn't try at all.

Predarat 03-24-2014 09:56 AM

Do you mean Chris "Toasted Oats" Owens?? God I hope not.

RealSNR 03-24-2014 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10512901)
What teams like the Seahawks and Panthers do is trust their draft to fill in starters. They aren't shy about giving late round picks starting jobs over veterans. It's one thing I like about those kinds of systems. Schwartz is a perfect example. If Dorsey is any good, you can get a decent starting guard late I'm the draft. The Seahawks had an outstanding draft the year they lose a third for Whitehurst.

I also think it does gel with the Alex Smith trade. We can easily field a team as good as last year in 2014. In 2015, we are on pace to stockpile a lot of picks and free up a shit load of space to buy actually elite free agents like jj Watt or Earl Thomas. I know the window is closing but if we hold off for one year, we could set up an unbelievable 2015 offseason.

They do that in a responsible manner, though. They put them in if the starter gets injured. They put them in if they've had plenty of opportunities to watch them in regular season games over 1, 2, or 3 years. They put them in if they perform demonstrably better than the current veteran in training camp.

What they DON'T do is place 100% of their trust in the drafting/scouting process, where they have an entire offseason to acquire even average veteran starters in through free agency to fill gaping holes in the roster. That's just being irresponsible and stupid. Or it's being a team with a loser/rebuilding mentality.

Relying on Sanders Commings and Rishaw Johnson is doing exactly what I described in the previous paragraph. That's NOT what the Seahawks and Panthers do.

chiefzilla1501 03-24-2014 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 10513041)
Exactly. Your chances are slim, but they are better than if you didn't try at all.

Be careful not to confuse 'not trying' with intentionally not making moves as a part of a bigger strategy. If this is a move to stockpile picks and give us space to make big moves in 2015, that's trying.

htismaqe 03-24-2014 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 10513041)
Exactly. Your chances are slim, but they are better than if you didn't try at all.

Moral victories are for losers.

Buying 100 power ball tickets is TRYING to win.

Buying 1 and crossing your fingers is HOPING to win.

chiefzilla1501 03-24-2014 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 10513073)
They do that in a responsible manner, though. They put them in if the starter gets injured. They put them in if they've had plenty of opportunities to watch them in regular season games over 1, 2, or 3 years. They put them in if they perform demonstrably better than the current veteran in training camp.

What they DON'T do is place 100% of their trust in the drafting/scouting process, where they have an entire offseason to acquire even average veteran starters in through free agency to fill gaping holes in the roster. That's just being irresponsible and stupid. Or it's being a team with a loser/rebuilding mentality.

Relying on Sanders Commings and Rishaw Johnson is doing exactly what I described in the previous paragraph. That's NOT what the Seahawks and Panthers do.

Given how many starters they have that were low round picks made you Seattle or Carolina, I'd have to disagree with you. Commings and rishaw are two guys the chiefs already know about. Remember, Seattle is a team who made the ballsy call to bench a high priced free agent QB who hadn't played a single snap to start a third round rookie. I agree the team should bring in low priced options as a safety valve. But what these teams don't do is panic and fill in free agents if they have an option on the roster they feel comfortable with. The fact that we immediately went out and snagged Mays and Walker leads me to believe they don't blindly trust nico, catapano, or Bailey. The fact that they've been extremely quiet about guards and safeties leads me to think they like an option they have in house. There are several consistent playoff teams, not just the steelers, that would have no hesitation to do what the chiefs are doing here.

chiefzilla1501 03-24-2014 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 10513089)
Moral victories are for losers.

Buying 100 power ball tickets is TRYING to win.

Buying 1 and crossing your fingers is HOPING to win.

What if the chiefs sign berry, Houston, and Smith to long term extensions. Then in 2015 collect four comp picks and free up the space to land, say, Earl Thomas. Would that be considered not trying? Does trying really have to happen right now vs next year, when we have a terrific opportunity to attack?

RealSNR 03-24-2014 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 10513108)
Given how many starters they have that were low round picks made you Seattle or Carolina, I'd have to disagree with you. Commings and rishaw are two guys the chiefs already know about. Remember, Seattle is a team who made the ballsy call to bench a high priced free agent QB who hadn't played a single snap to start a third round rookie. I agree the team should bring in low priced options as a safety valve. But what these teams don't do is panic and fill in free agents if they have an option on the roster they feel comfortable with. The fact that we immediately went out and snagged Mays and Walker leads me to believe they don't blindly trust nico, catapano, or Bailey. The fact that they've been extremely quiet about guards and safeties leads me to think they like an option they have in house. There are several consistent playoff teams, not just the steelers, that would have no hesitation to do what the chiefs are doing here.

Just using the Seahawks as an example, guys like Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner were plugged in following a 7-9 season. They were mid-round draft picks, but more importantly, the team had a chance to observe both players in training camp. If neither player won the spot, there was an average/meh veteran to hold over until those players became ready.

The team, even after underachieving the year before, had a system in place for plugging in those rookies as starters. They didn't just shit in a bag and hope it works out. They insured those holes with the previous veterans that were already on the team.

That's not what I see the Chiefs doing this offseason.

The Franchise 03-24-2014 11:00 AM

I really wish people would stop bringing up the Seahawks as the model to follow. They hit on an insane amount of draft picks and their QB isn't getting paid shit. Get back to me when they're forced to pay Wilson like a top 5-10 QB.

Direckshun 03-24-2014 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence (Post 10513179)
I really wish people would stop bringing up the Seahawks as the model to follow. They hit on an insane amount of draft picks and their QB isn't getting paid shit. Get back to me when they're forced to pay Wilson like a top 5-10 QB.

Is there a model you'd endorse?

The Franchise 03-24-2014 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 10513206)
Is there a model you'd endorse?

How about we create our ****ing own? Everyone always wants to create a team that can stop the Broncos offense. That's all fine and good until you get up against a team that your team isn't built to handle.

O.city 03-24-2014 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 10513173)
Just using the Seahawks as an example, guys like Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner were plugged in following a 7-9 season. They were mid-round draft picks, but more importantly, the team had a chance to observe both players in training camp. If neither player won the spot, there was an average/meh veteran to hold over until those players became ready.

The team, even after underachieving the year before, had a system in place for plugging in those rookies as starters. They didn't just shit in a bag and hope it works out. They insured those holes with the previous veterans that were already on the team.

That's not what I see the Chiefs doing this offseason.

If you trust your player evaluation and development, I don't see how it's a problem.


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