I laughed pretty hard at this.

Soler could very well turn into an All-Star someday. But, if we are going to trade away pieces and not compete next year. I'd rather blow the whole ****ing thing up and get as many prospects as we can.

Which is why one of them is now a 1B. :D

So move Hosmer, Moose, Cain...?

What type of return would ever justify those trades?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...119443603.html

Someone post this article

WOW

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Source confirms: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Nationals?src=hash">#Nationals</a>, if deal is completed, will send Lucas Giolito, Dane Dunning and Reynaldo Lopez to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhiteSox?src=hash">#WhiteSox</a> for Eaton.</p>&mdash; Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/806620169019805700">December 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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That's crazy. Oh, and that's how you rebuild. Sox still have Frazier and Quintana that should bring back value. Maybe Abreu if they can find a taker.

No. It's a good article, give the dude some pageviews.

That said, he's right. It's reality for small and mid-market teams. You don't get to be great every year for a decade. You don't usually even get a full 5 years. Small and mid-market teams are going to ebb and flow.

The key is to be the Royals and not the Rays. The Rays are going to be shitty for awhile because they didn't get value when they could've on guys like Price and Longoria. Worse still, they didn't actually win the prize and the Royals did.

Or you can try to get lucky like the Pirates have done and when McCutchen gets a little older you have Polanco behind him. When you can't hold onto Volquez, you have Taillon and that 9 foot tall mother****er that can't throw strikes who's name escapes me (edit: Glasnow - I have no idea how anyone ever touches that guy). That allows you to force the window back open for another few years.

But those don't come out of nowhere - you have them when you need them or you don't. A view of the Royals farm system says they don't have them. Ventura is probably not going to be that ace and Duffy burned through too much service time to be the cheap reinforcement you needed. Zimmer's arm is hamburger and while Cuthbert is a nice player, he's not a cornerstone type that they needed to replace Hosmer as the Pirates have done with Polanco.

It's a hell of a lot harder to keep things going in modest markets. So Moore's going to have to keep doing stuff like this. It's not fair, but it's reality.

He and Hoch getting hurt near/around trade deadline really blew up the sell high from the pen strategy.

Holy balls.

No way. Really?

I mean...put Quintana in there WITH Eaton and that trade makes sense. But damn, Eaton for Dunning and Lopez straight across makes a lot of sense. Giolito is too much to give up for Eaton on his own.

Sumbitch, that's crazy. Cost control is driving teams out of their minds. These GMs are desperately trying to avoid the FA market so if you can peddle someone like Eaton with 5 years of below market team control in tow, I guess teams will pay dearly for them.

I still can't believe the Chisox will actually get that, though.

Soler could turn into an All-Star immediately. This isn't a 19-year-old who's at High A. It's a guy who crushed the minor leagues and has been up and down through 700 ABs in the major leagues spread over two seasons.

The whole point of acquiring Soler is acquiring a guy who's ready right away.

The second forearm injury really, really ****ed the Royals. The Royals were poised to get Turner, Giolito, Michael Taylor, and Austin Voth for Cain and Davis ... until the injury.

Obviously, that would have turned out pretty well and transformed the KC outlook in 2017 and beyond.

Trying to be civil here, but what the **** are you talking about with "Halfway measures?" Are you harkening back to the pre-contention days? What Dayton Moore did in 2006-2011 while he was waiting for the young talent to come

Because starting with the Myers/Shields/Davis trade, everything Dayton Moore has done has been an all-in move.

They've been aggressive with guys they could afford in free agency. They made not one but two trades for reinforcements at the trade deadline in 2015. He re-upped guys in free agency following a WS win.

This trade puts another guy with Perez, Ventura, Kennedy, Cuthbert, Dozier, Herrera, Strahm, hopefully Duffy, and Mondesi for the next 3-4 years.

That's the core of a team that could still be a contender, with a few good development years and some good signings.

It's not a "stall for the next 6 years thing by any means."

Paging Dayton... if it's not done yet, get on the phone and offer Cain for Lopez\Dunning.

Ho-ly shit. What's your confidence level on that info?

Because I'm about to cry.

And while I was typing that huge post, the White Sox pulled off the trade of the season.

I don't know if the Nationals felt sorry for the White Sox about the return they got for Sale or what... but holy other of God, that's an insane return for Eaton.

You're talking about the top pitching prospect in baseball, the No. 12-15 pitching prospect in baseball, and another very good pitching prospect in Dunning who still is far away but is a top 100 type.

Ouch.

Yeah, that's a transformational deal for KC. Especially since I think pretty highly of Taylor's potential as a flawed but dynamic player. He's kindof a cheap version of Ian Desmond. Granted, Ian Desmond kinda sucks, but Taylor's cheap. Cheap with a couple of real tools is valuable.

My thoughts exactly... there's gotta be more to it than that.

Half the CFers in the league just became available to the Nationals.

As DJ said below, it's becoming clear that the serious trade pieces are players who are proven but have more than 1 year of team control. Cain as a 1 year guy coming off some injuries --- as much as we love him, I'm not sure how much value he has on the market.

ROFL Quintana is too valuable man do some ****ing research.


Rick Hahn being a boss at these meetings

What my ChiSox got for Sale is just fine. Moncada they say is Cano with speed and Kopech is like Syndergaard type plus the 2 others players in return

Lol you are such a homer

Moncada and Kopech are great prospects. Elite, even. But that deal still looked a little light - just a bit - once what the Nats offered came out. (Giolito, Lopez, Robles).

The White Sox still ended up with two of those three players, so it works out in the long run.


About 85 percent. The guy who was keeping me updated travels with the team and is currently in suburban Washington DC at the moment...

I think I kind of downplayed it on here... was very depressed.


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Usually, but re: KC 2017. You can't lump KC with all small markets for this season. We are not the Reds or Rays playing in a rough division. This thing is very winnable. Our window is open even with a team that looks .500 on paper


With Cain we were +13 last year. Really if he stays healthy (if!) this roster is no diff than last year's.

My Sox landed the top hitting and pitching prospect and haven't moved Quintana, Frazier, Melky or Abreu

No I'm not at all. Quintana has 4 years of control and is a goddamn good number 2 LHP. You don't package him with Eaton.

This is why I don't get the Royals. Should've spent money because the Sox and Twins are irrelevant. It's there for the taking. Detroit is aging but can still hit. Indians are the main threat.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Nationals were down on Lucas Giolito, and the entire industry knew it. Put Giolito together with Don Cooper, and good things can happen.</p>&mdash; Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/806627132231340044">December 7, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Hey, I've changed my mind.

The Royals are 3 years away from getting strafed by the !@#$ing Chisox, might as well try to grab another playoff run and see if you get lucky. They just put together a brand new rotation full of guys that can throw 100. That's unreal. Giolito and Lopez with Kopech and Rodon...man, that's some friggen gas right there. And really, they could still move Robertson for value and install Nate Jones for the future.

And while Frazier/Abreu won't get much back, Quintana will. Get on the horn with Chicago as I have to believe the Cubs see this as a direct assault on them. As JD noted, their rotation thins out a great deal after this season so why wouldn't they give up Happ, Jiminez and Candelario?

Lord, the Chisox just friggen re-loaded.

With that said, prospects all have a bust chance. We'll see how it goes in 2 years.

They can also hold onto Abreu for another few months or another year and let him mentor Moncada when he comes up.

I'm curious about Royals fans thoughts on Soler? Pumped?

Scroll back thru a hundred pages. Jeesh.

Holy shit.




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I think the Cubs are more likely to sign an injury rehab player like Tyson Ross and hope he bounces back and ready to insert in the rotation for 2018.

All right, now that things have sunk in a bit and apparently we have a few quiet minutes ... Thought I'd break down what the Royals lineup/depth chart look like with the trade in mind.

General comment: OFfensively, I think you're improved even if Soler continues to be an enigmatic hitter. it's obviously a major improvement/boost if he lives up to the potential.

Would guess the lineup might look something like this (if Dyson is traded, it changes again):

Dyson (CF/RF)
Moustakas (3B/DH)
Cain (CF/RF/DH)
Hosmer (1B)
Perez (C - for now. If Soler hits, he'll take this spot quickly)
Gordon (LF)
Soler (RF/DH)
Merrifield (2B primarily, but also LF, RF, 3B)
Escobar (SS)

Rotation:

Duffy
Kennedy
Ventura
Vargas
Chris Young/Mike Minor/Strahm/16 other guys

Bullpen:

Herrera
Strahm (still think he ends up here for at least 2017)
FA signing (could be Hochevar, could be another scrap-heap guy they kind of resurrect) or internal option (Zimmer and Staumont both could be here, if Zimmer can stay healthy or Staumont can throw enough strikes)
Soria
Flynn

That's a team that still has a big question mark at the No. 5 spot in the rotation. If Moore can swing Jarrod Dyson for a guy to add some insurance at that spot, things start to look rosier.

Jharel Cotton is a guy that seems to be out of reach for JUST Dyson by himself, but I wonder what a sweetener like Hunter Dozier or Cheslor Cuthbert or Jorge Bonifacio would do for you.

I don't love giving up those guys, but in this case you'd be picking up a controllable young starter, and exchanging a controllable young position player. I'm going to dream and say they find a way to get Cotton (maybe they throw in a Miguel Almonte or Eric Skoglund to get the deal done).

Looking at 2018 and beyond, your core looks like this:

Position players:

SS - Mondesi
C - Perez
RF - Soler
LF - Gordon
3B - Dozier or Cuthbert

Starting Pitching:
Ventura
Kennedy
Cotton

Bullpen:
Herrera
Strahm
Staumont/Zimmer (or maybe even both)

Funny how adding one quality SP and one quality/high upside bat makes that look a lot different. If you want to dream a little, let's say the Royals also manage to extend Mike Moustakas and Danny Duffy and add them to the pool. Now you've got a team you expect to stay in it for the long haul.

Duncan, Moore also has talked about rebuilding the bullpen. You think Dyson could fetch Sean Doolittle? The Royals previously have been linked to him, and he's under control for 4 years (that includes 2 team options) at reasonable prices.

Also, here's a wild-ass idea: If Zimmer is A) healthy in the spring, and B) impressive, immediately put him in the ML bullpen to start the season so they can get SOMETHING out of him before he breaks down again.

Doolittle is trending dangerously close to that 'his arm may be hamburger' stage of his career.

Guys with injuries that are never fully diagnosed scare the hell out of me. Baseball is littered with guys who feel 'a knot', spend some time on the DL, have 3 or 4 truncated comebacks and then just kinda suck for awhile before they disappear.

Doolittle, like the Cards own Michael Wacha, isn't there yet. But he's getting closer. Gimme a TJ surgery over those guys with 'stiffness' every couple of months every time.

Zimmer's like my 2008 Nissan Pathfinder that needs to get smog-checked. On one of those crazy days where the Check Engine light isn't on, I drive that thing to the smog shop so fast you barely see me...get it tested, then it breaks down again.

Good point.

I'd have traded anybody on the Royals except Perez & Duffy for them.



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DJ you need to spend more of your time here.

I'm sad now about the trade, why can't the royals get players like that?

Because we don't have 6 WAR players under team-friendly contracts for the next 5 years.

Name the 6 WAR Royal with 5 years of control.

You won a ****ing world series a year ago. Enjoy it.

Gee, thanks.

I'll just bow out to the expert here and eagerly await Soler's budding HoF career in Kansas City.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jorgeccas...rc=twsrc%5Etfw






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The Soler trade is a C+ from me. I am afraid his .240 average is his BA production at the MLB level and Kauffman will limit his power game. Tremendous upside though and could be an All-star if he develops some plate discipline. Had the Royals acquired even a low lever farm arm, this trade would have been much better. I am really shocked they didn't get a low level arm back in return along with Soler.

Love Moncada as a player.

He's going to haunt us for years to come, I am sad to say.

Funny you mention Salvador Perez, because he's the only Royal who probably commands that type of package, considering the value "control" has right now.


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Been hard keeping up with how fast this thread is moving. Pretty sure someone else mentioned this but the Cubs are the one's taking on a higher risk in this trade and I think that factors into this. Two injuries last year for Davis hurt us. If this was coming off Davis's '14-'15 campaign, we could have asked for the world. The 2016 Davis, while good when pitching, is fairly risky.

We'll see. Prospects are prospects man that's all I'll say. He has huge talent no doubt. Just going to be fun when we got Tim Anderson and Yoan Moncada manning the middle of their defense (SS and 2B)

That must be nice. Obviously Eaton should net more of a return than Davis because of controllable years, but yesh. Those are some amazing prospects.

I get yelled at a lot.

We have a common purpose right now (the winter meetings are FAP time for me) but invariably I'll say something like "Eric Hosmer is Mark Grace's far douchier cousin" and people will freak out.

Take that back you bitch!!!!!

I can just see it now: Sux race out to an early lead in 2019. Collapse middle of May. M'effingJones suddenly disappears from Royals threads.

They sucked ass. Don't worry. The Royals are going to be awful next year when everyone leaves, so enjoy it now. People got mad that I'd come in and post, so I stopped and was banned from Royals threads anyways. So quit your crying pussy. It's not like I can't take the shit talking. They suck. Is what it is.

You were banned because you don't know how to objectively talk baseball. It's the equivalent of me talking shit on the Cardinals, when they aren't doing well or we beat them, and then not posting relevant information when they are doing well.

Ya whatever you say bud. Good luck to the Royals this season. They should go undefeated against the Sox lol.

I'm just telling you what you don't seem to understand.

I personally don't have a problem with it. I can ignore or shit talk anyone on here if I need.

I like all the moves the Sox have made. Great haul they are making. It's how to re-tool and they are doing it well.

I have asked questions and have been told to **** off, so I've trolled at times. But all in good fun. I know the white sox deep down are shit. Last season, like every national media pundit, thought they'd compete for that WC game. Just hasn't worked at all with $5 bin walmart shopping like LaRoche and Navarro. Now, they did spend on Melky and Robertson who have been alright at times. Robertson dealt with a knee injury last season and wouldn't be a bad option for some team looking for a cheaper alternative to Chapman and Jansen.

On a serious note, what are your thoughts on the Royals and what they should do with the contract year guys? Just as a Sox fan, ya'll should be a lot better by getting healthier. Herrera should be fine at closer?

Your thoughts on Soler? He needs to stay healthy and he could really be a force. I think KC can compete with Cleveland and Detroit and I admire Moore's creativity. Just not sure about your rotation.


I just have to hope the Sox are ready to compete in 3 seasons. That's about the timeline with these guys. Take lumps for 2 years and hopefully get the number one pick and land a generational talented hitter. I've wanted a blow up rebuild for awhile now. So well see.

Not all of them. Just the usual suspects. It's ****ing hilarious.

Even better is the 50% of forearm issues =TJ.

CP baseball threads are = ownage. Lot of great discussion and I find myself in a lot of good and challenging baseball conversations (you, hamas, PB, too many guys to name in the Royals threads, even the guest stars from random teams).

It's weird that it happens on a Chiefs board, but I like it just the same.

I probably would have gone apoplectic today without being pushed to look at Soler more closely by you ... and I haven't done that since at least the Aaron Crow - Daniel Nava dust up (the 6th is Aaron's inning), and possibly the Myers-Shields trade.

I like the trade.

This is easily the best thread on the Planet

This. It has to feel pretty awesome to see your team pulling in stud prospects.

Duffy should be extended, and I think he will before March without a problem.
Of Moose/Cain/Hosmer:
Moose is by far my go-to of these three, put whatever we can into keeping him here.
Cain is too old and has had far too many injuries to throw money at long-term.

This is entirely my opinion, but Hosmer can walk right the hell to New York or LA for all I care. Whatever any team pays him is going to be too much. Not because he is a bad guy, not because he isn't a key part of the clubhouse, he just isn't that great of a Major League first baseman. He can be great, but we've been thinking that for four years now. Luckily for KC, Hosmer decides to shine at the most-convenient of times. From April to September, however, it's just you average streaky ball player.

My $0.02.

EDIT: And to add, I don't care about Hosmer's 25 home runs last year. The entire ****ing league hit a stupid amount of home runs last year.

Posted this a while back, but just look at this bullshit and try to convince me that there hasn't been something up since Manfred took over:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CuBo0_3XEAEJ0jT.jpg

Astros are interested in duffy...

Yeah, I'll bet they ****ing are.

They can pay far out their asses if they want him.

Agreed

If they'd trade Cain & get something good in return I wouldn't be upset either because he is another player who I feel is on the downward spiral.




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Cool. The Royals need a good 2nd baseman and Altuve & Salvy go way back.




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maybe their entire farm system?

I wish we got something else in addition to Soler. This trade just feels off because we traded an elite reliever for another team's bench player. But on the other hand if Davis does have a serious arm injury they did just give up super legit prospect for nothing.

On the flipside, if Davis is well rested and returns to form, the path to the World Series is going to be through Chicago, and good luck.

@JonHeyman: Royals checked in on old friend greg Holland but it appears they will be priced out.

Ned comments in the Star today were telling, saying he doesn't see Holland ever reaching his old velocity but that he's a bulldog competitor. That's a nice way of saying "nice knowing ya"

Chapman gets 5 years 86 mil from the Yankees.

Overall, 75% chance of dumpster fire

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chapman goes to yanks. 86M.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/806719922499973120">December 8, 2016</a></blockquote>
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