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-   -   Chiefs Let's talk about the Seahawks. (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=288252)

Frosty 11-11-2014 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 11102740)
What worries me is their defense is really effective when the front 4 can get pressure. That's when their secondary does what it's capable of.

Except that isn't happening this year. They are having a tough time getting to the QB. Mebane being out won't help either.

BlackOp 11-11-2014 11:05 AM

Mebane is out....he is their best defensive lineman. Both their starting TE's are out too. Their fans say the dink and dunk gives them fits. Smith is the best in the NFL at this...I think Charles has a good day running the ball.

They key is to score early in the game and keep it close....Oh and the crowd noise. Will be interesting to see how Wilson handles the crowd + Hali/Houston. This is his first time playing at Arrowhead...

OldSchool 11-11-2014 11:09 AM

Problem is, Seahawks have the speed to match our speed guys. A big reason why they are the #1 run defense in the league is because they rarely ever allow anything to break outside due to fantastic run support from their DBs. They swarm as well as any team.

Marcellus 11-11-2014 11:11 AM

The big question is will Moeaki be active for Seattle?

Direckshun 11-11-2014 11:13 AM

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/11/6/...l-and-how-this

The Limitations of the Seahawk's Offensive Personnel, and How This Contributes to Struggles in the Passing Game
By Jazzaloha
on Nov 6 2014, 11:49a

Danny Kelly had a recent post about Pete Carroll's belief that the team was ready to explode in the second half of the season. I really liked Carroll's comments and the enthusiasm behind them. It's an approach of a good coach/leader (assuming he, his staff and the players understand and are addressing the problems--which I assume they are doing).

On the other hand, I wouldn't take his statements at face value--not with regard to the true state of the team. This isn't to say that Carroll isn't being honest. I just think he's really trying to emphasize the positive, while also preventing the negatives from hurting the team. In this post I want discuss some of those negatives--specifically with regard to the passing game. (Warning: it may be a bit of downer, and it's not for fans who don't want to hear anything negative about the team.)

The Limitation of the Players

To me, when I think of the problems with the passing game, the quality of the players comes to mind first. So I want to start by examining each personnel grouping, with an emphasis on the limitations of each.

Quarterback:

Before I say anything, let me say that Wilson is by far my favorite player in the league. There are maybe only two or three QBs I'd prefer over him. With that said, I do think he has some significant limitations. The biggest limitation to my mind is his inability to climb the pocket, stand tall and throw when its really crowded. Think of the way Phillip Rivers hangs in the pocket, throwing the ball right before the pocket collapses around him. It's my belief that Wilson can't do that. I'm not sure about the reason for this, but my guess is that it has a lot to do with Wilson's short stature,and maybe some limitations with arm strength. Now, maybe I'm wrong about this, but the bottom line is that he almost never does this. When he throws from the pocket, the ball usually comes out really quickly (which is generally a good thing). The point is that he's not going to wait in there, giving more time for a route to develop or go to his 3rd or 4th option in his progression. Additionally, when he doesn't throw the ball quickly from the pocket, this often means he's either scrambling, running or getting sacked.

This creates several significant limitations. For one thing, I feel like the receivers have to get open pretty quickly. They don't have time much time to separate or find a cushion in the defense. Second, when Wilson begins scrambling he sometimes doesn't see open receivers, which isn't always his fault. Looking at some of the all-22 footage, it seems like his vision is obscured (and sometimes I believe his height is a factor in this). Additionally, when he starts moving to one side of the field, the receivers on the other side no longer become an option--even if they're open (especially on the deeper routes).

Offensive Line

Basically, the line doesn't create a pocket that the QB can consistently rely upon. As a viewer watching the game, I feel like a defensive linemen could quickly break through on any pass play. I just don't know when it's going to happen. I think it's incredibly difficult on a QB when he can't trust the bottom of the pocket will be stable and secure. The QB can step up in the pocket or move to evade edge rushers coming around the corner, but there's little he can do when a pass-rusher shoots up in front of his face.

To be fair, I thought the pass protection was pretty solid when the OL was healthy. Additionally, I wonder if the OL and coaches approach pass protection differently because of Wilson's strengths and limitations. Maybe they're not trying to create a classic pocket. Then again, maybe they're just not capable. I don't know the answer to this, but the bottom line is that the OL in recent weeks hasn't been all that dependable. This also includes the penalties they commit, which has such a devastating impact on their drives (at least that's what it seems like to me).

Receivers/Tight Ends

I'm lumping the two together, mainly because I see one main limitation--namely, there's no great pass catcher that is almost unstoppable to guard in a one-on-one situation--a player that the defense has to game plan for and thereby creating vulnerabilities that will help the other receivers/TEs to get open and do damage. Because of this, my sense is that the receivers often aren't getting open, creating great difficulties for Wilson.

The Problems Created by the Totality of These Limitations

Each of these limitations, by themselves, may not be a big issue. But collectively, I believe they're leading to the type of inconsistency and struggles with extending drives, never mind scoring points, that we've seen. I'm somewhat confident that the offense can work through all of this--when they play against weaker defenses--but I'm worried they won't be able to do this against the better defenses.

My hypothesis is that one of the key offensive philosophies on the team has been to exploit the opponent's defender in coverage, based on the idea that the Seahawk's weakest pass catcher will be superior--creating an exploitable match-up. That's what seemed to happen with receivers like Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse in previous years. It might also explain the reason they threw so much to Brian Walters (to the consternation of some) in a few games as well. And Baldwin and Kearse may not be as productive because they're facing the opponent's better cover guys. (Not sure if this is true or not). In any event, if Seattle does use this tactic, I think it's a good one--as long as your weakest receivers are consistently superior to the opponent's weakest defenders. My concern is that that might not be the case against some of the better defenses they'll have to face.

Possible Solutions

So what can the offense do, when they face tougher defenses? Could improvements in the position groups allow them to get over the hump? Wilson can improve on his accuracy, maybe his reads, but I don't think these improvements will have a major impact. Similarly, while I think a healthier and better OL will help the offense, I don't think the impact will significantly address the problem, either--not unless the pass protection got significantly better--creating a lot more space, particularly in front of Wilson, wider throwing lanes and just lasting longer. I just don't see that happening, particularly against the opponents with a great front seven. (I'm really worried about the Niner front seven when they get all their players back.) But I'd be ecstatic if I'm wrong about this.

With regard to the receivers/TEs, if they could improve their ability to separate, I think this could really solve the problem. Somehow I don' t think this will happen with the older players. I do hold out some hope that the rookies--Norwood and Preach--can make some huge strides. Beyond that, I don't think we see any dramatic changes in their ability to separate.

There's a chance that the coaches can do something schematically to help the receivers get open, but based on last year--when the team seemed to face similar struggles--the coaching staff didn't seem able to address this problem schematically. This isn't a criticism. There are limits to to schematic solutions. The great Tom Brady struggled without Gronk and Hernandez--and the Patriots might be one of the best at schematically enhancing their players and offense. Yet, I think they struggled to overcome not having Gronk and Hernandez.

Now, maybe the problem is execution--that is, better execution (and better OL and QB play)--would solve the problem, making them at least more consistent at sustaining drives (i.e., greatly reducing three and outs). That's a possibility as well, but I'd guess this isn't very likely.

That leads back to Norwood and/or Preach really developing--at least into a threat that's comparable to Golden Tate or Sidney Rice. Or maybe the team will find someone who can be this receiving threat I have in mind--maybe Moeaki? (Heck, I have to admit that if Sidney Rice returned I'd be excited, assuming he was good as he was in the past.) The point is, I think the team needs at least one player to be a bigger receiving threat--somebody that can open things up for other players. Without such a threat, I see the struggles continuing, especially against the better defenses.

(If this continues, then the hopes shift to the defense--that is, they must be as good as they were last year, if not better. Same with the special teams.)

A Word on Russell Wilson

I want to end by saying how all of this relates to Russell Wilson. I hear comments that suggest Wilson is primarily to blame when the offense struggles. This is understandable to some degree, as a QB's struggles does cause the entire offense to bog down. Wilson definitely has struggled at times, and I mentioned some of his limitations that also contributed to the problems on offense. However, my feeling is that the trouble stems from the sum total of the limitations I mentioned above. Pegging Wilson's performance as the primary reason for those problems is inaccurate in my opinion. This would be like blaming Tom Brady for the Patriot's early season offensive struggles. (There was even talk of trading him!) Now some observers did mention the lack of talent that surrounded Brady (including on the OL). The thing is, Brady rarely had a lot of great receiving weapons. What he did often have was at least one great receiving weapon, though. And I'd guess you could say this about most QBs, including the great ones. They generally need one great receiving threat to be really effective. Wilson doesn't have that type of receiving threat.

BlackOp 11-11-2014 11:31 AM

I think letting Golden Tate walk really hurt the Seahawks...that dude had a knack for clutch catches when Wilson was scrambling. He's been great in Detroit...I wish KC had gone after him..

From what I've read..KC @ Arrowhead is a bad match-up for this team. Gates gashed them...and they have trouble with TEs. They also have trouble with dink-n-dunk style of offenses.

EyePod 11-11-2014 11:49 AM

I want to see how the Seachickens' offense plays with a really loud crowd. We're going to give up yards to Lynch, it's a given. Bend don't break. Cover the receivers. Don't give up RZ TDs. A special teams return would be good. Oh, and DAT, make some better decisions back there during returns. Our offense had no chance all day in Buffalo with it's starting inside the 10 almost every damn time.

BlackOp 11-11-2014 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyePod (Post 11103201)
I want to see how the Seachickens' offense plays with a really loud crowd. We're going to give up yards to Lynch, it's a given. Bend don't break. Cover the receivers. Don't give up RZ TDs. A special teams return would be good. Oh, and DAT, make some better decisions back there during returns. Our offense had no chance all day in Buffalo with it's starting inside the 10 almost every damn time.

Lynch will get some yards...but they will get a few false starts with the noise and Houston/Hali on the edges. Those kill drives..

It's well known that they arent a great road team...and Wilson has never played in a stadium louder than his own. Its going to be a great game..

ToxSocks 11-11-2014 12:13 PM

Probably making a little too much out of Arrowhead. It's not like other venues don't get plenty loud. Im sure he's played in plenty of loud games.

O.city 11-11-2014 12:54 PM

Mebane to season ending IR with Hamstring. Dunno if posted.

OldSchool 11-11-2014 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 11103344)
Mebane to season ending IR with Hamstring. Dunno if posted.

Yup, makes this game a bit easier.

ToxSocks 11-11-2014 01:10 PM

I was much more worried about Buffalo than Seattle, but maybe we're not giving Seattle enough credit here. As a fan base, we're kinda overlooking them. At least more than we did Buff.

BlackOp 11-11-2014 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 11103267)
Probably making a little too much out of Arrowhead. It's not like other venues don't get plenty loud. Im sure he's played in plenty of loud games.

I dont think I am...Seahawks are an average team on the road..and Arrowhead is a tough place to play. Early time slot too...10 am Seattle time and long travel..

I'm not overlooking them at all....this will be a great game. I just like how KC matches up against them...Buffalo..not so much. Bills strength played into KC's weakness..O-line...they could wreak havoc with just four defenders.

Bowe vs. Sherman will be interesting...two big dudes.

Jimmya 11-11-2014 01:27 PM

I would love to see if they will run zone coverage versus our offense. I would think they will to help have more eyes on our running game.

Sandy Vagina 11-11-2014 03:19 PM

KC better be careful, if playing a lot of man vs Russell. Dude will rack up rush yards by himself, if no one is spying him, and a sure tackler.

Mebane being out is definitely a huge plus for the run game. Alex didn't mind taking shots against Revis.. will be interesting to see how much he targets vs Sherman.


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