:facepalm:

WERE WE WINNING GAMES?

Then yes, things WERE better.

And Orton had barely been in Kansas City what, a month? Less than that?

Hardly any time taking reps with the first team and he was out there slinging 300-yard games.

You can't tell me that the offense converting third downs and moving the ball more and keeping the defense off the field didn't contribute to winning.

I think we would have beaten Miami and Denver at Arrowhead earlier in the year with Orton.

Epic fail

They BARELY beat Denver and managed to score all of 19 points against one of the worst defenses in the league.

You're wasting a lot of effort trying to polish a gigantic turd.

Stanzi > Orton

Have you thought that maybe, just maybe, part of Orton's success was due to Haley being gone?

Again, I didn't say Orton is a HOF candidate. But he clearly did things better than Cassel. Biggest was probably diagnosing a defense. 1 sack in 3 games... while still throwing for 300 yards twice... as opposed to taking sacks or chucking into the cheap seats and throwing for 96 yards.

My opinion is that Cassel may struggle out of the gate learning Dabol's system when Brady Quinn already knows it and is familiar with it. If Cassel struggles early and Quinn looks sharp already knowing the system, you may see a change...MAY. Obviously Romeo is also comfortable with Quinn as well.

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Really the only difference I saw with Orton was less 3 and outs. In the red zone that guy was generally just embarrassing.

The offense was much crisper with Orton. Only a buffoon would argue otherwise.

The offense was much crisper without Haley.

No.

Josh McDaniels is a winner, and he knows how to pick 'em.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0601..._orton_576.jpg

We will see. I'm not convinced Cassel is magically going to have pocket presence under Crennel. I could be wrong, but don't think I am. Palko showed much better pocket awareness... he just couldn't make the plays at that level, and that was under Haley.

Possible I guess. We've had bad QB's in the past, but have never been blowy u to bits as much as the Haley era. Embarrasing amount of home defeats and demolishings under that boob.

Jumping jesus, nobody is defending Cassel. When someone says Orton wasn't a big step up from Cassel because he sucked in the red zone and couldn't generate points, that's just a comment on Orton and not an endorsement of Cassel. They are both, at best, average NFL QB's who don't have what it takes to bring a team to the Super Bowl.

I've stated it before, and I'll state it again. Play calling in the Red Zone for Orton was pretty shaky. Bowe dropped an easy TD... INT on next play. McClain dropped one... would have been a tough catch, but should have been made none the less. And some questionable running plays bogged things down.

All this while Orton was learning new teammates and on his eleventy billionth new OC in a short time (I know you understand how that hinders a QB).

Not saying Orton over his career doesn't have a history of Red Zone failures. Just don't think it is/was all on him here.